Expenses, expenses...

[claytonender]

Originally Posted by andrewb

No I can't, which is why council tax payers would love to hear that our money has not been used for personal phone calls. I did actually ask for subsidised figures, but they don't seem to have been provided.

Well maybe you should contact them again and ask for the rest of the information you requested in your FOI.

Are you going to give us the benefit of your extensive 'knowlege' in regard to the obscene increase in Peter Britcliffe's members allowances from 2003/04 and 2007/08 - 75.68%

[garinda]

Originally Posted by claytonender

Well maybe you should contact them again and ask for the rest of the information you requested in your FOI.

Please God no.

Let's not waste anymore time of paid council employees, who I'm sure have much more worthwhile things they can be doing for us instead.

I'm sure councillors would be more than willing to provide the other information, if asked nicely.

[andrewb]

Originally Posted by claytonender

Well maybe you should contact them again and ask for the rest of the information you requested in your FOI.

I asked for "Mobile phone costs (if they are council provided or subsidised)". Obviously they have just given me the figures for phone bills under the ream of 'expenses', if councillors pay themselves, it's not really council expenses is it.

However if Hyndburn Borough Council have got it wrong, and Graham does subsidise his personal calls, then I'm sure he'll be along to tell us any time soon.

[claytonender]

Andrew you still don't appear to have any views on the 'obscene' level of pay rise Peter Britcliffe has had between 2003/04 and 20007/08. Or is that ok because he is a Tory?

[Lolly]

Originally Posted by andrewb

Financial Year 2007/2008

Total
Leader of the Council: £2,189.3
Leader of the opposition: £1,924.95

LGA Conference
Leader of the Council: £204.44
Leader of the opposition: £204.44

Hotels
Leader of the Council: £323.40 (4 nights)
Leader of the opposition: £323.40 (4 nights)

Food
Leader of the Council: £236.95
Leader of the opposition: £0

Travel
Leader of the Council: £622.58
Leader of the opposition: £0

Mobile Phone Bills
Leader of the Council: £797.97
Leader of the opposition: £1,393.11

Currently we're discussing the cost of the Labour leaders mobile phone bill, I hope you can join us.

Then why not just put down the mobile phone costs? If we are only discussing the leaders mobile bill the only put down the mobile phone bill!

[turkishdelight]

Originally Posted by Mancie

You may not be a "nasty person" ...but to my mind you do step up and take what lets say ....an extreme Tory attitude in your posts..... you have grown up ... and become a slog hard Tory... and there we were hoping you might have gained at least the basics of the world we live in ... but no... you have taken the path of a very good education given to you by hard working people ...and slapped them in the face.

Anyone can take the path of this good education if they choose too.I dont get the bit Slapped them in the face?

[Less]

Originally Posted by turkishdelight

Anyone can take the path of this good education if they choose too.I dont get the bit Slapped them in the face?

I don't think Cyfer is slapping us in the face, at least he seems to be attending and attempting to learn something.

It would be more a slap in the face if he was to say, go to university get his grant then give up the course with no intention of giving the money back as many other people seem to do.

I hope he comes out of it with a really good degree, I may not agree with his politics but I think he is enjoying and taking a real advantage from his time at Uni'.

[g jones]

Originally Posted by shakermaker

Sorry Mr Jones, I know I'm being numb here, but I have no idea what you're saying about your phone allowances.
You do pay for your own personal communication, don't you? It isn't paid for by the council, surely. I'd appreciate it if you'd put this in big clear letters for me, ta

p.s. I admire you for your dedication to being a carer Mr Jones, good on you.

All personal calls have to paid for so the Council messing up my account left me out of pocket. It also left the Council out of pocket too.

It was said I was the only Councillor (there are only 5 mobiles allowed Leaders and Deputies) who went through their's line by line and coffed up. Not sure about that.

Since the bill has fallen to within the monthly allowance (£12) for a such a small amount I now pay a %.

[g jones]

Originally Posted by yerself

Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed, and are right. ~H.L. Mencken, 1956[/B]

Silly post. You don't know what your talking about.

Is this advocating a one party state? Adversity is the backbone of democracy. Courts, Councils, Governments. The backbone of free speech, Board rooms, families, social groups, IT messageboards.

This debate is not blue v red (only ignorance leads to that conclusion). Or is it one group against another. It shows your naivety.

The rest of us want democracy back. Where you have say (the one you seem to want o give up so cheaply without explanation). That's what I am fighting for. If you're against that then your leaning towards totalitarianism.

Don't take my word, take the the word of the 3 Tory Councillors who have resigned because of that fact.

[g jones]

Originally Posted by entwisi

IMHO unless he identifies himself as a mod in his posts or PMs then he is as a normal member.

No one has ever questioned other mods views even though they have in teh past been controversial. why so with Andrew, is it because his are 'political' views as opposed to views about ' normal' life. If so then I feel for teh future of this country that people are prepared to fall out, not trust, change behaviour with a person just because they see things differently than you. isn't that where we were with systems like apartheid, racism, slavery etc. You can have views about something that don't fit with your friends without them getting in the way of friendship, respect etc.

Graham often quotes teh "Race to teh bottom" in his posts, I'd rather it be a race to honesty and clarity irrespective of what side of the red/blue line that falls then we as voters can make our own decisions based on fact rather than propaganda.

Yes, but you are taken in by the propaganda. It is a race to the bottom. What positive things in 10 years (Conservatives) has those making the decisions done? No Tory ever answers this question.

And in the spirit of a race to the top I put to you The Globe Centre - George Slynn - 600 good jobs - just for starters.

So where next?

[g jones]

Originally Posted by andrewb

I see a few of you have been confused. Well, I don't think being called a person who compares me with Hitler, is really that good a call, cashman, I can't believe you wonder why I disagree with you.

Garinda, It's quite clear that you're using the family link, that's okay my friend, nobody will stop you from doing so, its nothing on me if you don't have a good argument.

I will never use the status I have been given, wrongly as anybody who has used the forum will know, the existing moderators would be the first to object if I did, and good on them.

As for the original post, I am not, a nasty person, I did not target anybody. If personal calls have been used for council tax payers money, that is not my fault. If it hasn't, then I'm sure people will be glad to hear the £1400 bill has been subsidised for personal calls.

You tried to paint a negative picture of me. You are nasty. That's obvious. I don't mind scrutiny and was the reason I posted up front.

It's about the 3rd time events surrounding my Gran affected politics and those that knew ignored it for their own personal gain.

Last years Labour budget. The Shadow Finance Portfolio had the same problem as me and had to take a back seat. I couldn't complete the work myself because I had my Gran to deal with. But oh no, you had to run to the media and say Labour couldn't produce a budget (knowing we had pressing personal obligations). "They are useless" was your convenient take.

Yes. I believe you live and breathe in the gutter for these reasons. Family is more important than politics.

[andrewb]

Originally Posted by g jones

You tried to paint a negative picture of me. You are nasty. That's obvious. I don't mind scrutiny and was the reason I posted up front.

It's about the 3rd time events surrounding my Gran affected politics and those that knew ignored it for their own personal gain.

Last years Labour budget. The Shadow Finance Portfolio had the same problem as me and had to take a back seat. I couldn't complete the work myself because I had my Gran to deal with. But oh no, you had to run to the media and say Labour couldn't produce a budget (knowing we had pressing personal obligations). "They are useless" was your convenient take.

Yes. I believe you live and breathe in the gutter for these reasons. Family is more important than politics.

I haven't been to any media about you not being able to come up with a budget. I haven't involved your family in politics. I am not nasty just because I don't think you'd be the best person to run the council, people do have opinions different to your own you know. We've talked about you living in your own world, seperate to reality, before.

I believe you live and breathe hate politics.

[claytonender]

Originally Posted by g jones

All personal calls have to paid for so the Council messing up my account left me out of pocket. It also left the Council out of pocket too.

It was said I was the only Councillor (there are only 5 mobiles allowed Leaders and Deputies) who went through their's line by line and coffed up. Not sure about that.

Since the bill has fallen to within the monthly allowance (£12) for a such a small amount I now pay a %.

Andrew now Graham ahs explained that he paid for all personal calls he made on the mobile maybe you should be asking if Peter Britcliffe also reimbursed HBC for all the personal calls he made on his Council provided mobile.

[katex]

Originally Posted by accyman

if somone is out helping people and working for his constituancy then obviously they wont have a landline available so will depend on a mobile more

i would say the higher the phone bill the more that person was out and about getting things done

I think you should have kept quiet whilst you were ahead on this Graham, I would have willingly endorsed Accyman's comment as above, as others were swing this way. Now I am a little confused, but not questioning any 'misuse' at all. Cllr Britcliffe's bill wasn't that small either @ £798 ... but presume had the same problem with the contract too.

From what I have seen of you, you are a very enthusiastic, hardworking and approachable Councillor who spends lots of hours explaining matters at length to his constituents ... not sure what Cllr. Britcliffe is like, as never had any contact to be fair; just on face value alone doesn't seem to have the same type of friendly personality ('course again could be wrong).

Originally Posted by claytonender

Here are some interesting figures on Peter Britcliffe's Member's Allowance payment form 2003/2004 year to 2007/2008 year.

2003/2004 basic allowance (which every member is entitled to claim) £3102.75 + special Responsibility allowance £11765.02 Total £14867.77
2004/2005 basic £3134.74 + special £12644.62 Total £15779.36 (an increase of 6.13%)
2005/2006 basic £3726.46 + special £14549.46 Total £185275.92 (an increase of 15.82%)
2006/2007 basic £4154.10 + special £16616.04 Total £20770.14 (an increase of 13.65%)
2007/2008 basic £4257.97 + special £21862.01 Total £26119.98 (an increase of 25.76%)
so in 4 years he had an increase in his members (and special) allowances of 75.68%, I have compared the increase in the National Minimum wage over the same 4 years - this increased by 23%.

In addition to the members and special allowances he has also claimed mileage, childcare and subsisitence.

Yes, this thread was initially about expenses, but am confused by the figures you have put up Claytonender. Please correct me as not fully au fait with accounts, etc.

Have only found access to what they were at January 2009, and the increase as from thereon, for instance:-

Basic allowance 4,388 >> 4,498 ... 2.5 percent.
Leader of the council 20,488 >>> 20,950 2.45 percent
Leader of Opposition 6,582 >>> 6,747 2.5 percent.
Cabinet Members 7,679 >>> 7,871 2.5 percent.
And so it goes on ... just average increases of 2.5 percent for all posts held; has this not applied to all council members on the basics over the years too.

Is it that Cllr. Britcliff holds specials that command a higher allowance ?

Is Cllr Britcliffe's allowance only showing ?

Hope you understand what I am getting at .. know what I am trying to impart in my head, hope has come out on this post.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by entwisi

@Cashy - you want me to admit to not having an open enough mind that would allow me to change my vote depending on what I believe is right at the time. - rather starnge to want to admit to being blinkered. Unfortunately I'm not....

NO i did not, i just asked the simple question,was there any of the Big 2 parties you can honestly say you have NEVER voted fer in the past, sorry was the question too difficult?