Face covering

[cashman]

This is all about Identification, which is essential in a court of law/amongst other places where it is required, also handy when an offence has been commited, These things are sod all to do wi religion, just plain common sense, which seems to be lacking to some.

[Eric]

Originally Posted by DtheP47

It isn't just "foreign" women that are choosing to wear the burqua Eric, British-born Muslims are also making this choice.

Of course I realize this. I'm not unintellingent, nor am I ill-informed. I'm also aware that Canadian women who convert to Islam choose to wear bags over their heads.

But it's the symbolic aspect of the question that concerns me ... and the hard reality behind the symbolism. It's more than a question of not being able to see someone who may be testifying against you. There is a wider issue, probably a whole bunch of issues. Let's take my country, for example ... and we got many of our ideas on how society should work from you guys. And we run our country, in general, by the same written and unwritten rules as you do.

(As an aside, here is a list of current Canadian first ministers:

List of current Canadian first ministers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Notice anything?)

But, back to it. We have major problems over here. First Nations folks are, in general, poorer, less well-educated, over represented in our jails, more prone to suicide .... well, you get the picture ... than the rest of us. But we are dealing with the problem. Not as quickly as some of us would like, but the debate is ongoing. Too many kids in Canada go hungry. We have too many seniors at the poverty line. Homophobia. Anti-semitism. Lotsa problems. But they are out in the open. We talk about them. Things are getting done. But as soon as we start to raise questions about the status of muslim women, about honour killings, about face-covering in courts, what happens? Oh no, cry the mullahs and the radicalized muslims, you can't discuss this. You are rascists. You are Islamaphobes. ("You can't discuss this" seems to be a common response from many in the muslim communities ... so much for free speech, eh.)

Bottom line, for me anyway, is that the bag over the head thingy is an offence to everything Canadians believe in. Well, maybe not hockey It belongs in Canada as much as a statue of Himmler belongs in Tel Aviv. It's not just the court thingy ... it's everything about face covering that is wrong. And it's not only wrong here and in the land of uk; it's wrong anywhere. It's wrong in Afghanistan: the worst place in the world to be a woman, in spite of the blood and the bucks that we poured into that place in order to change things. It's wrong in Pakistan: the third worst place in the world to be a woman. It's wrong anywhere. It belongs in the dustbin of history along with the swastika and the creepy KKK outfit.

[jaysay]

There was an item on the breakfast news this morning where they are looking at wearing veils in hospitals, I have to say when I was in hospital last year I did see a couple wearing a burka, not on wards but in other departments I went in during my stay, it appears there have been some complaints about it

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Eric

Of course I realize this. I'm not unintellingent, nor am I ill-informed. I'm also aware that Canadian women who convert to Islam choose to wear bags over their heads.

But it's the symbolic aspect of the question that concerns me ... and the hard reality behind the symbolism. It's more than a question of not being able to see someone who may be testifying against you. There is a wider issue, probably a whole bunch of issues. Let's take my country, for example ... and we got many of our ideas on how society should work from you guys. And we run our country, in general, by the same written and unwritten rules as you do.

(As an aside, here is a list of current Canadian first ministers:

List of current Canadian first ministers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Notice anything?)

But, back to it. We have major problems over here. First Nations folks are, in general, poorer, less well-educated, over represented in our jails, more prone to suicide .... well, you get the picture ... than the rest of us. But we are dealing with the problem. Not as quickly as some of us would like, but the debate is ongoing. Too many kids in Canada go hungry. We have too many seniors at the poverty line. Homophobia. Anti-semitism. Lotsa problems. But they are out in the open. We talk about them. Things are getting done. But as soon as we start to raise questions about the status of muslim women, about honour killings, about face-covering in courts, what happens? Oh no, cry the mullahs and the radicalized muslims, you can't discuss this. You are rascists. You are Islamaphobes. ("You can't discuss this" seems to be a common response from many in the muslim communities ... so much for free speech, eh.)

Bottom line, for me anyway, is that the bag over the head thingy is an offence to everything Canadians believe in. Well, maybe not hockey It belongs in Canada as much as a statue of Himmler belongs in Tel Aviv. It's not just the court thingy ... it's everything about face covering that is wrong. And it's not only wrong here and in the land of uk; it's wrong anywhere. It's wrong in Afghanistan: the worst place in the world to be a woman, in spite of the blood and the bucks that we poured into that place in order to change things. It's wrong in Pakistan: the third worst place in the world to be a woman. It's wrong anywhere. It belongs in the dustbin of history along with the swastika and the creepy KKK outfit.

Great Post Eric

[Sunflower49]

I apologise as I cannot remember where I read it, but I do recall something in the media regarding the accused woman who appeared in court covering her face. (Just typing that sentence, I cannot help but think 'lunacy)!
I read that she didn't usually wear the veil, she had facebook pictures up of her with her face exposed, and was not known to wear it usually in day to day life.

I'll see if I can find information on that, but I'm not sure I read it online.

As far as I know there is still a majority vote for the banning of the burkha/niqab/veil but it varies a LOT depending on generations of voters ,and political parties. It has declined very slightly in the last few years. I don't know-consequences of covering one's face do vary according to situation, and things could likely get messy if the government had to differentiate between situations where it is acceptable, and where it is not.

It makes me feel uneasy if I see somebody in a public place with their face covered-be it by a hoodie/balaclava/snood or Burkha. It could be melodramatic to feel that way and it isn't an overwhelming feeling, but still, it's there.

[DtheP47]

Originally Posted by sugarmouse0707

I apologise as I cannot remember where I read it, but I do recall something in the media regarding the accused woman who appeared in court covering her face. (Just typing that sentence, I cannot help but think 'lunacy)!
I read that she didn't usually wear the veil, she had facebook pictures up of her with her face exposed, and was not known to wear it usually in day to day life.

I'll see if I can find information on that, but I'm not sure I read it online.

.

Think maybe it's this one SM?
Not the woman up for witness intimidation, who incidentally had to remove her veil in court.
This one's a bit closer to home... if you live in Lancs that is
Muslim woman Shaheda Lorgat unmasked in court after stealing from college | Mail Online

[DtheP47]

Originally Posted by Eric

Of course I realize this. I'm not unintellingent, nor am I ill-informed. I'm also aware that Canadian women who convert to Islam choose to wear bags over their heads.


But, back to it. We have major problems over here. First Nations folks are, in general, poorer, less well-educated, over represented in our jails, more prone to suicide .... well, you get the picture ... than the rest of us. But we are dealing with the problem. Not as quickly as some of us would like, but the debate is ongoing. Too many kids in Canada go hungry. We have too many seniors at the poverty line. Homophobia. Anti-semitism. Lotsa problems. But they are out in the open. We talk about them. Things are getting done. But as soon as we start to raise questions about the status of muslim women, about honour killings, about face-covering in courts, what happens? Oh no, cry the mullahs and the radicalized muslims, you can't discuss this. You are rascists. You are Islamaphobes. ("You can't discuss this" seems to be a common response from many in the muslim communities ... so much for free speech, eh.)

.

An erudite and considered response Eric, thanks.
I am guessing you can link into BBC Radio, maybe you have the time to listen to todays 5 Live Drive.
The last hour anyway makes interesting listening, particularly Professor Ted Cantle on the Community Cohesion Foundation and the two female muslim doctors talking about their wearing of the veil.
BBC Radio 5 live - 5 live Drive, 19/09/2013

About Community Cohesion | Community Cohesion and Intercultural Relations | Professor Ted Cantle

[Mick]

Originally Posted by jaysay

I have to say when I was in hospital last year I did see a couple wearing a burka, not on wards but in other departments I went in during my stay, it appears there have been some complaints about it

was this a patient or a doctor i would not fancy being examined by a doc wearing a Veil

[dotti34]

Would be great for wearing on a bad-hair day - and think of the money that could be saved on not having to bother with make-up. Hmm! gets more appealing by the minute.....

[accyman]

i figured out what their true purpous is a while back

basically they are fart guards for when they have to walk 4 paces behind their master (husband)

see..it makes sense now dosnt it

[Sunflower49]

Originally Posted by DtheP47

Think maybe it's this one SM?
Not the woman up for witness intimidation, who incidentally had to remove her veil in court.
This one's a bit closer to home... if you live in Lancs that is
Muslim woman Shaheda Lorgat unmasked in court after stealing from college | Mail Online

Could well be, I think I recognise the name.

Originally Posted by dotti34

Would be great for wearing on a bad-hair day - and think of the money that could be saved on not having to bother with make-up. Hmm! gets more appealing by the minute.....

Lol true-second thoughts I might get one myself-do they do one in bright pink?

If It's supposed to hide your 'beauty', I think the broad in that Daily Fail article needs to have a word with herself....

[DtheP47]

Originally Posted by dotti34

Would be great for wearing on a bad-hair day - and think of the money that could be saved on not having to bother with make-up. Hmm! gets more appealing by the minute.....

Well if I buy the current Mrs P several full length ones, one for each day of the week it'll free up a lot of flipping wardrobe space. All those dresses she's had for ages. Yeah right!

[Less]

Originally Posted by DtheP47

Well if I buy the current Mrs P several full length ones, one for each day of the week it'll free up a lot of flipping wardrobe space. All those dresses she's had for ages. Yeah right!

She would still ask, does my bum look big in this?
You would still know that whatever answer you gave, it would be wrong.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by DtheP47

It isn't just "foreign" women that are choosing to wear the burqua Eric, British-born Muslims are also making this choice.

You use the word choice, are you sure they choose to wear it and are not told or intimidated into wearing it?

[MargaretR]

As a person who lives in nighties and dressing gowns (have very many of them - colour co-ordinated), I can see how burkas will be comfortable.

Most clothes, especially bras, are tight fitting, and now I rarely wear 'clothing', I appreciate that loose clothing is so much more comfortable, and, in some respects, is liberating