Fairtrade Fortnight

[Gayle]

Originally Posted by Doug

I don’t disagree Gayle, I farmed in Garstang on a regular basis and I aware of there statues, I also shop at Sainsbury’s in Bispham and regularly purchase Fair Trade goods. But it is somewhat of a con when it’s the main markets that are still setting prices and there is little reliable monitoring of what’s getting to the people who need the income i.e. the workers. But what really concerns me is the lack of internal investment in our own producers whilst all this is going on…..

Yes, totally agree Doug that there should be more done for indpendent suppliers over here and some supermarkets are coming round to that. Asda for example are now allowing individual stores to source a number of locally produced items themselves instead of going through central purchasing. This should also be encouraged.

[Gayle]

Originally Posted by garinda

Perhaps if we'd have had Freetrade in the past to protect our mills here, we would still have a cotton industry in Lancashire, instead of being undercut by the workers in India.


I do think that it isn't the job of local councils to preach about morality, when we live in a free market economy, and a lot of people do not have the luxury to be able to choose what they but. The cheapest is very often their main concern.

I have nothing against the Freetrade movement or it's aims, I just don't want to be preached to about it by my local council.

It is not the local council that is promoting this, it is Prospects Foundation who are an independent charity.

At no point did I say that people who couldn't afford it should buy the more expensive item - I was simply suggesting that if you could afford it then perhaps you could buy with your concience every now and then.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Gayle

It is not the local council that is promoting this, it is Prospects Foundation who are an independent charity.

....but wasn't it decided that HBC would only drink Freetrade coffee?

So indirectly they are promoting it.

[Gayle]

Well, they've agreed to be a part of it, I see that slightly differently to actively promoting it.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by Gayle

Tealeaf, yes you are right Hyndburn is not a rich area, although it has now risen up the rankings and is out of the bottom 50 deprived areas in the UK. I did not suggest for a minute that anyone who was below the poverty line should spend their money on more expensive items, I suggested that some people who do have that few pence extra to spare may consider what they are buying and purchase goods that are fairtrade rather than alternative expensive items (and Fairtrade goods are not the most expensive items on the shelf). In other words buy using your concience occassionally.

Yes, there are countries and governments out there that are corrupt, I don't even begin to know how much money we have poured into their coffers, but the whole point about Fairtrade is that the suppliers are organisations who have guaranteed to pay their staff acceptable wages and to operate under certain codes of health and safety that other suppliers have not. For a supplier from a third world country to be able to supply Fairtrade items they have got to sign up to the basic principles which is why it is called 'trade' that is 'fair'.

Not being a well person at the moment I don't want to get excited. Why are we doing this when our own producers are being forced out of the local market place, same within europe. Why is it this country that always feels the need to get involved in someones else problems. We need to reinvest in our own people Gayle, sustain our own market place and then go and save the world. People are making money out of Fairtrade no doubt about it. Yesterday the local producer drove a tractor, today he might have a Toyota 4x4, the worker is still on a penny a day and works dawn to dusk, Health and Safety is an excuse of British self rightousness and not a real concideration in the third world nor many other places beyond these shores.

[Gayle]

Originally Posted by Doug

Yesterday the local producer drove a tractor, today he might have a Toyota 4x4, the worker is still on a penny a day and works dawn to dusk, Health and Safety is an excuse of British self rightousness and not a real concideration in the third world nor many other places beyond these shores.

All I can do is ask you to read the following link. This explains how the suppliers are allowed to become suppliers.

http://www.fairtrade.org.uk/supplier...htm#principles

If you have any proof that this is not being adhered to then I would be interested to know it.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Doug

Not being a well person at the moment I don't want to get excited. Why are we doing this when our own producers are being forced out of the local market place, same within europe. Why is it this country that always feels the need to get involved in someones else problems. We need to reinvest in our own people Gayle, sustain our own market place and then go and save the world. People are making money out of Fairtrade no doubt about it. Yesterday the local producer drove a tractor, today he might have a Toyota 4x4, the worker is still on a penny a day and works dawn to dusk, Health and Safety is an excuse of British self rightousness and not a real concideration in the third world nor many other places beyond these shores.

Quite agree, they should keep their noses out, and be concentrating on stopping the planned expansion of multi-national giant retailers at Whitebirk, before this town dies on it's arse.

The argument that some of the supermarket giants will stock a minute supply of locally produced goods just doesn't cut it.

Perhaps HBC should be offering one of the many empty shops in the town centre to the Freetrade movement, at least it would be a change from all the empty/ charity/ pound shops.

[Gayle]

But why should the two things be mutually exclusive? Why can we not support our own produce and goods and also promote some fairtrade things? You're making it sound like I'm suggesting you buy all your things via Fairtrade which I'm not.

It's not a case of one or the other. I have agreed with you that locally produced goods should be promoted more, so get down to the market hall and buy from independent suppliers and more local fruit and veg! You can do that AND support the odd product from Fairtrade.

[Gayle]

As far as I am aware there are no coffee plantations over in England - please put me right if I am wrong about that. So, could you please explain what the harm is in buying Fairtrade coffee rather than coffee produced by a large multinational organisation that squeazes every last penny out of the suppliers.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by Gayle

All I can do is ask you to read the following link. This explains how the suppliers are allowed to become suppliers.

http://www.fairtrade.org.uk/supplier...htm#principles

If you have any proof that this is not being adhered to then I would be interested to know it.

I recall a programme not to long ago on box that discussed these very issues. I think the upshot of it was that the workers replied positively and politely to the monitors questions, but their where some suspicions that they might have been a degree of intimidation from the producer in order to protect this new increased income.

If we could increase freedoms and incomes across the world without someone exploiting the situation or there people fine, but we can’t. This is a charitable organisation I understand, if they think they can do something, brilliant. But don’t ask an already exploited people to foot the bill. HBC should be investing in the Borough, let the charity, supermarkets and the will of the paying public deal with the rest of he world. I will personally continue to invest in freetrade products as long as continue to enjoy them, nothing less, nothing more.

I don’t know why I’m engaging in this discussion, I don’t live over there………………

[Doug]

Originally Posted by Gayle

As far as I am aware there are no coffee plantations over in England - please put me right if I am wrong about that. So, could you please explain what the harm is in buying Fairtrade coffee rather than coffee produced by a large multinational organisation that squeazes every last penny out of the suppliers.

There isn't. I thought the idea of fairtrade was to reward the producers in order for them to assist in the relief of poverty and address workers rights in the third world. Most outlets selling fairtrade goods are those that exploit in the first place, like I say I buy mine from Sainsbury's and Marks & Sparks there hardly doing anyone any favours by controlling the suppile and avalablity of products.

[Gayle]

Originally Posted by Doug

HBC should be investing in the Borough,

Why are you bringing HBC into this again? I'm not part of HBC, and as far as I'm aware all they have done is agree to buy Fairtrade coffee themselves and until you can find a local coffee plantation then I don't exactly see the harm in it. Yes, they should be investing in the Borough wherever possible I really don't see where that has come into question.

Originally Posted by Doug

let the charity, supermarkets and the will of the paying public deal with the rest of he world.

I think that's all that I was asking in the first place but unless someone lets people know about these things nothing happens. I posted a thread that I thought was a simple thread promoting the odd use of some Fairtrade items and to be honest I thought it was a relatively straightforward thing that wouldn't cause such a fuss.

Originally Posted by Doug

I will personally continue to invest in freetrade products as long as continue to enjoy them, nothing less, nothing more.

So why have you spent the last hour arguing with me when you buy the stuff yourself anyway?

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Gayle

So, could you please explain what the harm is in buying Fairtrade coffee rather than coffee produced by a large multinational organisation that squeazes every last penny out of the suppliers.

There isn't any harm, I've bought Freetrade products. I just don't want my local council suggesting how I spend my money.

There is already enough information out there if people are interested, without HBC trying to obtain the status of a Freetrade borough by actively encoraging the relevant number of shops or cafes to qualify as such.

[entwisi]

Originally Posted by Gayle

Yes, totally agree Doug that there should be more done for indpendent suppliers over here and some supermarkets are coming round to that. Asda for example are now allowing individual stores to source a number of locally produced items themselves instead of going through central purchasing. This should also be encouraged.

Have you seen what our local ASDA has on its 'local suppliers' shelves?

A few mint balls, some jams and preserves and thats about it. (Although they do sell Hollands pies in teh freezer section )

Absolutely rubbish attempt if you ask me.

[Gayle]

Originally Posted by garinda

There isn't any harm, I've bought Freetrade products. I just don't want my local council suggesting how I spend my money.

THEY'RE NOT! Are you in some way objecting to me posting the thread in the first place because I thought I was just putting some information up - I'm NOT part of the Council!

Originally Posted by garinda

There is already enough information out there if people are interested, without HBC trying to obtain the status of a Freetrade borough by actively encoraging the relevant number of shops or cafes to qualify as such.

The only way that people get to find out about things is if people tell them - I was supplying information. It is Prospects Foundation (a local environmental charity) that is trying to get Hyndburn to be a Fairtrade borough.