Fake shops

[Less]

Originally Posted by jaysay

There's not much of a shop in fake shop front either Margaret its just a façade

Just think, in this pretend kibab house it would even be possible to get a hel al pork pie.

[Margaret Pilkington]

I hope you will be paying for the fake pie with fake money John(I know you will - you have a bit more sense than HBC).
Hey...maybe this fake food is the answer to the obesity crisis.....but then again maybe we will all have fake fat from the fake pies.

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by Guinness

Yeah..let's pick on spelling, much easier than explaining why Rishton keeps getting allocated money over other areas much more in need...20k for planning cafes, supermarkets and shops in a village with 2 supermarkets, a spar, 2 cafes, a restaurant and umpteen shops, 10k for allotments and 5k for looking at unadopted roads.

But hey, coming from a guy who has probably made more sensational posts about the former council (before he was elected) than an amalgam of any 5 other members of this forum..why let facts get in the way!

You and Graham Jones exemplify what is wrong with the politics of this country...when you were looking for votes you were all over this forum, since you both have been accountable you have been conspicuous by your absence, chipping in occasionally usually to bemoan that you are misunderstood or that you know better than us plebs. (And in Graham Jones's case it's probably because some unpaid intern has copy/pasted the info from Google for him beforehand)

I don't like Jay's political stance, but I would never stoop so low as to use spelling or grammar as an argument against his political leanings. How far has the socialist ideal fallen that it attempts to make political gain over spelling....pathetic

Perhaps my somewhat sporadic posting these days stems from an immediate distrust as soon as my party took control of the Council. Maybe you have time to come onto a forum that disbelieves everything you put in writing in public, I'm afraid I personally have better things to do with my time than argue with people who suddenly seem hell bent on getting me to prove that every last thing I say isn't some sort of lie. I don't ever recall saying that I know more than anyone else either, unless you have evidence that states otherwise?

Rishton gets no more money than anywhere else, I just shout louder about what we actually do get. You seem to know a lot about what we're using our Area Council money for, one might almost assume that you live here.

If that's the case then why are you so worried that your Councillor is actually doing what he said he would?

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

Perhaps my somewhat sporadic posting these days stems from an immediate distrust as soon as my party took control of the Council. Maybe you have time to come onto a forum that disbelieves everything you put in writing in public, I'm afraid I personally have better things to do with my time than argue with people who suddenly seem hell bent on getting me to prove that every last thing I say isn't some sort of lie. I don't ever recall saying that I know more than anyone else either, unless you have evidence that states otherwise?

Rishton gets no more money than anywhere else, I just shout louder about what we actually do get. You seem to know a lot about what we're using our Area Council money for, one might almost assume that you live here.

If that's the case then why are you so worried that your Councillor is actually doing what he said he would?

Glad to hear you haven't the time to come on here now Ken especially because you think that nobody believes a word your saying, I believe not long ago you too had all those doubts about other politicians but its obviously curable.

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by jaysay

Glad to hear you haven't the time to come on here now Ken especially because you think that nobody believes a word your saying, I believe not long ago you too had all those doubts about other politicians but its obviously curable.

Just one other politician Jay, just one who bandied about figures and didn't expect anyone to question where they came from. I did and it didn't go down very well.

Councillors make decisions and not everyone will agree with them but at least have an accurate reason ready to answer your critics.

[Guinness]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

Perhaps my somewhat sporadic posting these days stems from an immediate distrust as soon as my party took control of the Council. Maybe you have time to come onto a forum that disbelieves everything you put in writing in public, I'm afraid I personally have better things to do with my time than argue with people who suddenly seem hell bent on getting me to prove that every last thing I say isn't some sort of lie. I don't ever recall saying that I know more than anyone else either, unless you have evidence that states otherwise?

Rishton gets no more money than anywhere else, I just shout louder about what we actually do get. You seem to know a lot about what we're using our Area Council money for, one might almost assume that you live here.

If that's the case then why are you so worried that your Councillor is actually doing what he said he would?

I'm sorry but you had one very minor spat with one member who was intent on flogging a particularly dead horse....it would have been easy enough to stop responding and move on to other discussions, instead of taking your ball home and drawing the curtains for six months.

Coming on here and arguing the toss when not in power is easy, staying around and fighting your corner when you are in power and therefore accountable is much more gutsy...

Regardless of where I live , I maintain the right to disagree and question what I consider to be trivial and/or pointless council spending of my hard earned wampum.

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by Guinness

I'm sorry but you had one very minor spat with one member who was intent on flogging a particularly dead horse....it would have been easy enough to stop responding and move on to other discussions, instead of taking your ball home and drawing the curtains for six months.

Coming on here and arguing the toss when not in power is easy, staying around and fighting your corner when you are in power and therefore accountable is much more gutsy...

Regardless of where I live , I maintain the right to disagree and question what I consider to be trivial and/or pointless council spending of my hard earned wampum.

Yes, and despite finding answers for various members of this forum I suddenly found myself turned on by a great number of them as soon as I became part of the ruling group. Flogging a dead horse has never been one of my strong points, particularly when it has been pulling the bandwagon that quite a few people jumped on.

With regard to questioning Council spending, I would maintain your right to do so as well but would hope and pray that you do at least cast your vote each year, regardless of colour. I meet an awful lot of people who have very strong criticisms of the Council but never actually bother to vote.

I'm all for measured arguments too but the danger of the Internet is that there is a lot of bravado behind the safety of a keyboard and many debates descend into slagging off the Council for the sake of it. I have had hundreds of bravura comments online but can count on one hand the number of abusive debates I've had in the real world regarding the Council. Everything usually boils down to the fact that my answers don't match the ones in their head so it's fair game to mark out the politician as a liar.

Most people are nothing like that in person, thankfully.

[Margaret Pilkington]

For me, I view the local political scene in an entirely different way to national politics.
I think I am more trusting of local politicians....for a variety of reasons.....they are much more accessible(Yes, I know that MP's have their surgeries where you can see them with a problem or issue) you can see your local councillor in the post office, or on the market and often he/she will pass the time of day with you....their children may go to the same school as your and you meet them at Parents Evenings and at the school gates.
They haven't got elevated too far above what most MP's see as the hoi polloi.
They have their finger on the pulse of local events....and while they should not be immune from criticism if they are not pulling their weight....they should be recognised for the good work that they do.......and I have said this before PARTY POLITICS shouldn't come into it, because that is where rancour arises, and often is unwarranted and benefits no-one.

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

For me, I view the local political scene in an entirely different way to national politics.
I think I am more trusting of local politicians....for a variety of reasons.....they are much more accessible(Yes, I know that MP's have their surgeries where you can see them with a problem or issue) you can see your local councillor in the post office, or on the market and often he/she will pass the time of day with you....their children may go to the same school as your and you meet them at Parents Evenings and at the school gates.
They haven't got elevated too far above what most MP's see as the hoi polloi.
They have their finger on the pulse of local events....and while they should not be immune from criticism if they are not pulling their weight....they should be recognised for the good work that they do.......and I have said this before PARTY POLITICS shouldn't come into it, because that is where rancour arises, and often is unwarranted and benefits no-one.

My sentiments exactly. Thank you, Marg.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

Yes, and despite finding answers for various members of this forum I suddenly found myself turned on by a great number of them as soon as I became part of the ruling group. Flogging a dead horse has never been one of my strong points, particularly when it has been pulling the bandwagon that quite a few people jumped on.

With regard to questioning Council spending, I would maintain your right to do so as well but would hope and pray that you do at least cast your vote each year, regardless of colour. I meet an awful lot of people who have very strong criticisms of the Council but never actually bother to vote.

I'm all for measured arguments too but the danger of the Internet is that there is a lot of bravado behind the safety of a keyboard and many debates descend into slagging off the Council for the sake of it. I have had hundreds of bravura comments online but can count on one hand the number of abusive debates I've had in the real world regarding the Council. Everything usually boils down to the fact that my answers don't match the ones in their head so it's fair game to mark out the politician as a liar.

Most people are nothing like that in person, thankfully.

To be honest I agree with most of what you have said, although I not one who hides behind a screen name firing bullets at a stationary target, think most people know exactly who I am and where I stand. I can also agree that people can change things if they use their vote but when less that 33% bother to turn out on the first Thursday of May every year nothing is likely to change. The only time there is a "C" change at HBC in terms of controlling group is more to do with who the incumbents in 10 Downing Street than anything being undertake by the rulers in the Town Hall

[Margaret Pilkington]

In general elections I have been known to spoil my paper or to not vote at all....and this isn't due to being lazy/apathetic....it is down to me not being able to choose a candidate, because although they may sport coats of a different colour(in relation to political ideology) they are all the same, they lie to us, cheat us and treat us, the electorate, with contempt.
In the main they think there are different rules for them, the elected ones, to us...the ones who elected them. Their contempt for us is palpable as is seen by the fiascos of the Huhne case and the Lord Rennard allegations.
National politics is rotten to the core and needs some desperate event to sort it out.
Those at the Palace of Westminster care nothing for the common man....or for the future of this country. The only thing they care about is saving their necks and having a nice fat nest egg to live high on the hog off.
(Yes....I know my cynical pills are wearing off....I'll just go and take another one, or maybe two for good measure)

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

In general elections I have been known to spoil my paper or to not vote at all....and this isn't due to being lazy/apathetic....it is down to me not being able to choose a candidate, because although they may sport coats of a different colour(in relation to political ideology) they are all the same, they lie to us, cheat us and treat us, the electorate, with contempt.
In the main they think there are different rules for them, the elected ones, to us...the ones who elected them. Their contempt for us is palpable as is seen by the fiascos of the Huhne case and the Lord Rennard allegations.
National politics is rotten to the core and needs some desperate event to sort it out.
Those at the Palace of Westminster care nothing for the common man....or for the future of this country. The only thing they care about is saving their necks and having a nice fat nest egg to live high on the hog off.
(Yes....I know my cynical pills are wearing off....I'll just go and take another one, or maybe two for good measure)

No Margaret one is quite sufficient really. The only person I know or should I say knew who broke that mold was the late Ken Hargreaves, Ken was quite unique really all he ever did in life was to help people in need of help regardless of political leaning race or creed, I can remember one of Kens Neighbours talking to me the morning after he lost his seat in 92' He just said, "will the council be mending the pavements now" I looked a little bemused at this statement and just hey, they'll need to fill the rut in leading to Kens front door which has appeared over the last nine years with people coming to see him, think that said it all really.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Yes, John...that was then, and life back then was different...politics was different.
And to some people, supporting a political party is done blindly without asking yourself any questions.
The people I am talking about do not see that the political parties have changed beyond all recognition....the lines that separated the parties have become blurred, so that voting for one of the main parties is really no different from voting for the other main party.
These people think that the ideologies followed by the parties, are the same as they were in the fifties and sixties...which anyone with half a brain cell can see quite clearly, it is not the case.
They think that socialism...real socialism exists.
They think that one party will care for and look after the old, the vulnerable and the sick.......it is all an illusion....there is no red, there is no blue...there are just different shades of mauve now.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Yes, John...that was then, and life back then was different...politics was different.
And to some people, supporting a political party is done blindly without asking yourself any questions.
The people I am talking about do not see that the political parties have changed beyond all recognition....the lines that separated the parties have become blurred, so that voting for one of the main parties is really no different from voting for the other main party.
These people think that the ideologies followed by the parties, are the same as they were in the fifties and sixties...which anyone with half a brain cell can see quite clearly, it is not the case.
They think that socialism...real socialism exists.
They think that one party will care for and look after the old, the vulnerable and the sick.......it is all an illusion....there is no red, there is no blue...there are just different shades of mauve now.

Socialism died long ago when it was proved it didn't work, I worked tirelessly for the Tory Party most of my life because I though it was a better overall than anything Labour could offer me. I always liked to think I could make the judgement on which way I wanted my life to go, where as with Labour you weren't allowed to think for yourself always having to toe the party line. I site George Slynn as an example, who, after devoting his life to the Labour movement ended his political career standing as a Lib/dem candidate, after being deselected from his county seat for opposing the party line on the sale of a home for the elderly in Gt Harwood.

[accyman]

well everybody knows anyone that dissagreed with tony blair was out of a job pretty quickly and from what happened with our own labour MP over europe stating he would support a referendum then spitting in our faces and voting against it i can only assume the same rule applies under milliband.

that sad thing is if he had stood as an independant if he got deselected from labour for going aginst milliband he would probbably have won

MPs are elected by us to work for us.We do not elect them to tow the party line and provide votes to push their leaders ideas through parliament.

what party leaders do at times is intimidation and any party leader proven to be demanding mp's vote how they are told should be forced to step down with immidiate effect and let the deputy leader take over.Whats the point in having a vote if you are been told how you have to cast that vote the party leaders may as well fill the voting slip in themselves