fanatics

[DaveinGermany]

Originally Posted by garinda

'Ramzi Binalshibh, Said Bahaji and Mounir Motassadeq, three members of what would become known as the Hamburg cell, the core group that carried out the attacks on New York and the Pentagon.'

'Hamburg -- and Germany as a whole -- was an almost risk-free environment for Islamic radicals. German officials, mindful of the country's Nazi past, say now that they were reluctant to target mosques and risk allegations of racism or religious persecution. Such reservations meant that while authorities were aware of the calls to arms that fired up the members of the Hamburg cell, they saw no cause to interven.'
Hamburg's Cauldron of Terror (washingtonpost.com)

'BERLIN -- Islamist extremists have begun to use Turkish- and German-language Web sites in an effort to win support and recruits among Germany's Turkish minority, adding to concerns over the threat from homegrown terrorism in Europe.'

'Islamist Web sites have flourished in Germany since 2001, but in the past much of the content was news recycled from more professional media, while extremist content was in Arabic. That changed late last year, however. In November, Sehadetvakti.com appeared, posting Turkish and sometimes German translations of statements by Muslim extremist organizations, including al Qaeda in Iraq, within hours of their release.'
Web Sites for Germany's Turks Fuel Fear of Homegrown Terror - WSJ.com
German Population Plunge “Irreversible,” Federal Stats Office Admits
'There are roughly 700 people in Germany who the interior ministry believes may be involved in extremist Islam circles, the ministry's deputy head said. Dozens of them are under intense surveillance.'
Hundreds of Potential Terrorists Live in Germany, Official Says | Germany | Deutsche Welle | 01.11.2008

Germany has one of the largest populations of Muslim immigrants in Western Europe, with a Muslim community of over 3 million. That trend is expected to continue, leading some demographic trend-watchers to warn that the country is well on the way to becoming a Muslim state by 2050, Deutsche Welle reported.
German Population Plunge “Irreversible,” Federal Stats Office Admits

Er...yeah, ok, good luck.

As stated earlier, fanaticism knows no geographic boundaries.

I'm not disputing the facts, but if I trawl through the UK News sites I would find similar extracts, the Hamburg cell had links with other european countries, 7/11 an event carried out by Radical British Muslims, and aren't the British government also responding in the same way so as to not appear racist ?? you'll find it wherever. The Point I made was it isn't as blatant as in the UK. I turn the News on in Germany and the outcry about some Muslim group or other in Germany isn't there.

[DaveinGermany]

Originally Posted by garinda

As pointed out earlier, the majority of fanatics are born and raised in the countries in which they operate, and unless you happen to be in the group of Britains who make up less than one percent of the population, who are descended from an aristocratic background, you only have to go back a few generations to find the majority of inhabitants of this country living in slums.

Again stating the obvious Britain has become the poor relation of Europe, how many families live on the bread line, have inadequate income, and are struggling through on a daily basis, areas of the UK have become similar to these third world countries, and the vast number of people are from ethnically different backgrounds.

[DaveinGermany]

Originally Posted by garinda

I gave a link to the story of a German fanatic who was awarded cost and legal fees, to be paid by the German tax payer, after wining a case brought against the sate.

That is fact.

That he was investigated afterwards for terrorism, makes the decision even more ludicrous.

Abu Hamsa ??

[garinda]

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany

I'm not disputing the facts, but if I trawl through the UK News sites I would find similar extracts, the Hamburg cell had links with other european countries, 7/11 an event carried out by Radical British Muslims, and aren't the British government also responding in the same way so as to not appear racist ?? you'll find it wherever. The Point I made was it isn't as blatant as in the UK. I turn the News on in Germany and the outcry about some Muslim group or other in Germany isn't there.

The number of Germans who have converted to Islam has increased fourfold within one year -- despite the negative perception of Islam among the general public.
Muslim Converts in Germany: Angst-Ridden Germans Look for Answers -- And Find Them in the Koran - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International

Investigators have discovered a “Jihadi village” of white German al-Qaeda insurgents, including Muslim converts, in Pakistan’s tribal areas close to the Afghan border.
"Jihadi Village�: White German Muslim Town Found In Pakistan - Atlas Shrugs

Perhaps we just have a better news service in the UK.



Fanaticism knows no political boundaries.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany

Abu Hamsa ??

The person named in the link I gave, who was awarded fees and cost against the German state, was Reda Seyam.

He was subsequently monitored by German intelligence, after it was discovered as well as calling his son Jihad, he himself fought as a Jihadist in Bosnia.

[DaveinGermany]

Originally Posted by garinda

The number of Germans who have converted to Islam has increased fourfold within one year -- despite the negative perception of Islam among the general public.
Muslim Converts in Germany: Angst-Ridden Germans Look for Answers -- And Find Them in the Koran - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International

Investigators have discovered a “Jihadi village” of white German al-Qaeda insurgents, including Muslim converts, in Pakistan’s tribal areas close to the Afghan border.
"Jihadi Village�: White German Muslim Town Found In Pakistan - Atlas Shrugs

Perhaps we just have a better news service in the UK.



Fanaticism knows no political boundaries.

The same could be said of the UK, prisoners taken at various engagements with the NATO forces, imprisoned in Guantanamo were claiming British citizenship and the home office should bail them out, then the radio intercepts of Taliban fighters having "Midland & Yorkshire accents"

[garinda]

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany

Again stating the obvious Britain has become the poor relation of Europe, how many families live on the bread line, have inadequate income, and are struggling through on a daily basis, areas of the UK have become similar to these third world countries, and the vast number of people are from ethnically different backgrounds.

Strange that in your words, Britain is now similar a third world nation, just how many people try to enter the country, legally, or illegally.

I can only presume you haven't travelled very far, or wear blinkers that hinder your view of reality.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany

The same could be said of the UK, prisoners taken at various engagements with the NATO forces, imprisoned in Guantanamo were claiming British citizenship and the home office should bail them out, then the radio intercepts of Taliban fighters having "Midland & Yorkshire accents"

I've said nothing that contradicts that.

All I was commenting on was your assumption that you were happy to have left the UK, and Germany was somehow immune from fanaticism, which it clearly isn't.

As the German demographic statisticans predict you'll be a Muslim country in forty years, I wish you all the best.

[DaveinGermany]

Originally Posted by garinda

Strange that in your words, Britain is now similar a third world nation, just how many people try to enter the country, legally, or illegally.

I can only presume you haven't travelled very far, or wear blinkers that hinder your view of reality.

Areas of Britain, come on now you can't tell me you've not seen some of these areas I'm talking about ?

[DaveinGermany]

Originally Posted by garinda

I've said nothing that contradicts that.

All I was commenting on was your assumption that you were happy to have left the UK, and Germany was somehow immune from fanaticism, which it clearly isn't.

As the German demographic statisticans predict you'll be a Muslim country in forty years, I wish you all the best.

I left the UK "to serve my Country", and at no point did I say Germany was immune to fanaticism, but that there is not an overwhelming prevalence displayed on the News bulletins.

Not just Germany but pretty much all of Europe as the birthrate in Muslim families is higher than that of European families, and U.K. won't be free from this phenomenon either. This is quite clear to see should you walk down some of our Major towns & Cities roads today, especially in Areas of Yorkshire, London & Leicestershire.

[DaveinGermany]

The title of this thread is "Fanatics", we may have wandered somewhat in this little segment, but I don't want to see how many News paper & magazine articles you can find & post up here, I want your View, the opinion of Garinda the person, sway me, us with "Your opinion"

PS back to an earlier point I've travelled plenty and seen quite a lot.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany

The title of this thread is "Fanatics", we may have wandered somewhat in this little segment, but I don't want to see how many News paper & magazine articles you can find & post up here, I want your View, the opinion of Garinda the person, sway me, us with "Your opinion"

PS back to an earlier point I've travelled plenty and seen quite a lot.

I haven't swayed from the thread's subject.

Fanaticism isn't confined by geographic boundaries, the problem is international, and I've supplied ample evidence to support that fact.

If you've travelled, and think the Britain of today, with it's generous benefit culture, NHS, and sophisticated infrastructure, is akin to a 'third world country', I must arrive at the conclusion that you aren't very observant, or that you haven't travelled much in eastern Europe, Africa, Asia, or central and southern America.

[DaveinGermany]

Originally Posted by garinda

I haven't swayed from the thread's subject.

Fanaticism isn't confined by geographic boundaries, the problem is international, and I've supplied ample evidence to support that fact.

If you've travelled, and think the Britain of today, with it's generous benefit culture, NHS, and sophisticated infrastructure, is akin to a 'third world country', I must arrive at the conclusion that you aren't very observant, or that you haven't travelled much in eastern Europe, Africa, Asia, or central and southern America.

Garinda, Garinda, you're doing it again mate, your taking thinks literally to devalue my opinions. The thread was about "Muslims 4 UK" intending to protest at Wootton Basset, as I'm sure you're aware this is the focus point of the true tragic cost of the situation in Afghanistan to the British people, seen on an almost daily basis. Now any right minded Britain (irrelevant of their creed or colour) should be offended & irate at this planned affront.

But we've ended up at Worldwide Fanaticism. That is also an undeniable truth, it can be found all over the Globe, but isn't the point of this thread despite the wealth of evidence you've provided to back up your entries. We are trying to establish peoples views on the planned (but now cancelled) protest that was to be carried out by Muslim "Fanatics".

Once more my friend you are mistaken, I am observant enough to see that you are re-phrasing my comments to suit your discourse on the topic. At no time have I stated that Britain is a third World Country which you infer here, the actual statement was "There are areas that are like a third World Country".( a small aside here : sophisticated infrastructure ?? which falls apart with a bit of snow ??)

As to travel I've seen parts of Eastern Europe, just after the "Iron Curtain" came down, and these were lands in the 20th century that still resembled something out of the 19th Century. I've been back since and as stated in comparison with UK there are Towns & Cities full of Opulence & Squalor both sides of the coin within a couple of streets of each other. As to the Middle East, the Home of the Muslim faith, how does Saudi, Iraq & Kuwait compare, again we have this gaping divide between haves' & have nots' this is also reflected in their standard of life & living.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany

areas of the UK have become similar to these third world countries

Care to list those areas of gross poverty, the ones ineligible to benefit from a generous welfare state, a National Health Service, and a sophisticated infrastructure?

By the way, this thread is simply titled 'fanatics', fanatics who appear throughout the world, and aren't confined to any one nation.

fa·nat·ic (f-ntk)n. A person marked or motivated by an extreme, unreasoning enthusiasm, as for a cause.

A Stanley supporter could argue their case here, or one of the party faithfull could push their politics, without veering off thread, or breaking forum rules.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by garinda

Care to list those areas of gross poverty, the ones ineligible to benefit from a generous welfare state, a National Health Service, and a sophisticated infrastructure?

Oh, and not forgetting a free education, that most in the real third world would love to have.