For those of you who want to monitor you electricity usage

[katex]

Originally Posted by Neil

I know you are waiting but I am not saying it

I suspect your fan heater will use a lot of power. Probably rated at between 2Kw to 3Kw thats 2 or 3 units per hour.

That makes sense Neil .. have probably had it on for about 5 hours per day over the last 5 days. Practically just live in the back now, and no need, at the moment, for heating in the rest of the house. Ok. heater getting chucked .. back to the drawing board.

[Neil]

Do you have a combi boiler and thermostatic valves?

[Retlaw]

Originally Posted by Neil

Do you have a combi boiler and thermostatic valves?

Niels right about combi boilers and thermo valves.
trouble is most people dont use the timer on the boiler & the thermo valves properly, why does your bathroom need to be the same temp as the living room all the time, same for the other rooms in the house you don't use much, they only need to be kept aired. As for electric heaters they realy burn leccy, wouldn't have one given.

Retlaw

[katex]

Originally Posted by Neil

Do you have a combi boiler and thermostatic valves?

Understand where you are heading here Neil.. no, don't have Combi .. not viable to buy one .. probably wouldn't live long enough to reap any savings.

As to thermostatic valves on radiators .. only one has (in the back) Has been discussed as would just keep the other rooms just aired when the Central Heating is on. However, the radiators in the back, although hot, don't give me enough warmth without any type of direct heat. I'm soft.

Another nuisance, as I found out recently when British Gas fitted a new timer, is that the heating will not work without the water being on ! All those years I presumed it did, as this is the facility that the timer appeared to have .. they say definitely not .. not wired up for that. Wished they'd told me that years ago !

[park381]

Originally Posted by katex

Another nuisance, as I found out recently when British Gas fitted a new timer, is that the heating will not work without the water being on ! All those years I presumed it did, as this is the facility that the timer appeared to have .. they say definitely not .. not wired up for that. Wished they'd told me that years ago !

Kate, how old is your heating system/boiler. If the heating worked without the hot water being on it should still do the same.
Could you run the heating on its own before BG fitted a new timer?
The boiler is not a combi, so you must have a cylinder, has that cylinder a thermostat on it, half/three quarters way down the cylinder?

[katex]

Originally Posted by park381

Kate, how old is your heating system/boiler. If the heating worked without the hot water being on it should still do the same.
Could you run the heating on its own before BG fitted a new timer?
The boiler is not a combi, so you must have a cylinder, has that cylinder a thermostat on it, half/three quarters way down the cylinder?

Thanks for your interest Park ... yes, is a cylinder and no the cylinder does not have a thermostat. Boiler at least 12 years old. Present cylinder about 10 years, but most of wiring/radiator system been in 34 years.

I always thought the heating ran without the water on, because the facade of the timer said I could.. but the BG fitter told me couldn't possibly have done in the past because not wired up to do so. There again, did used to run the hot water constantly with the heating anyway, so never knew all those years ..

Brother had arranged with a Plumber to fit thermostats on radiators, ah ! that was last year; rang up to remind him, he had forgotten, but would put me at the top of his list ... that was a month ago ! Am now going to contact a certain Gas Engineer to see if he wants a job.

Thanks for this thread Neil, has helped me tremendously. Brother actually had one of these devices, and showed me how it works, particularly on fan heaters ... gulp.

[Neil]

Kate, you could also turn the radiators to almost off in the room you only want aired. Turn the valve all the way off. Then turn it on 1/4 turn. If this is not warm enough try another 1/4 turn until you get the desired effect. Not as good as a thermo valve but better than the heating being full on in rooms you don't want.

As for the heating not working without the water on it will not matter that much. Once the water is as hot as it can be it will only take heat from the boiler as the water in the cylinder cools. With a good insulation jacket this won't be too much. When you have a thermostat on the hot water cylinder you can set the hot water temp so save energy by not having the water hoter than you need it to be. In your case you probably set the hot water temp by adjusting the temperature on the boiler itself.

I think turning the boiler temp down will use less gas overall but it may take a little longer to warm the house up ( and your hot water will not be as hot )

[park381]

Originally Posted by katex

Thanks for your interest Park ... yes, is a cylinder and no the cylinder does not have a thermostat. Boiler at least 12 years old. Present cylinder about 10 years, but most of wiring/radiator system been in 34 years.

I always thought the heating ran without the water on, because the facade of the timer said I could.. but the BG fitter told me couldn't possibly have done in the past because not wired up to do so. There again, did used to run the hot water constantly with the heating anyway, so never knew all those years ..

Brother had arranged with a Plumber to fit thermostats on radiators, ah ! that was last year; rang up to remind him, he had forgotten, but would put me at the top of his list ... that was a month ago ! Am now going to contact a certain Gas Engineer to see if he wants a job.

Thanks for this thread Neil, has helped me tremendously. Brother actually had one of these devices, and showed me how it works, particularly on fan heaters ... gulp.

Strange one Kate, sounds as if you have a gravity fed cylinder which is very strange in this day and age, would have thought it would be a pumped primary type system.
Do not have TRV's fitted to all radiators because you could have all TRV's closing and have the pump running against a stop end (would damage the pump) unless the plumber fits a "bypass" or bypass valve.

[park381]

Originally Posted by Neil

As for the heating not working without the water on it will not matter that much. Once the water is as hot as it can be it will only take heat from the boiler as the water in the cylinder cools. With a good insulation jacket this won't be too much. When you have a thermostat on the hot water cylinder you can set the hot water temp so save energy by not having the water hoter than you need it to be. In your case you probably set the hot water temp by adjusting the temperature on the boiler itself.

Wow, think you need to have a look at the different type of heating systems available today Neil. Honeywell "Y" plan to name but one, a 3-port valve will give either hot water only, heating only, or both. If Kate's system is gravity hot water, then the boiler will cycle day and night to retain the temperature in the cylinder, that is unless it is controlled via a time clock. In other words if the boiler is running, some of the boiler output will be going to the hot water.

[park381]

If anyone uses E-on for both gas & electric then I have sorted a little spread sheet that will give you some idea of the cost of energy used. I say E-on because I know what they charge for primary, and secondary units. All you need is the previous meter readings from the last energy bill. and a current reading which you take yourself.
PM me if you want a copy of the spread sheet

[Neil]

I doubt Kate has gravity hot water. It is more than likely fully pumped with either a single pipe flow return like mine is or seperate flow and return pipes running around the house. I have all TRV's and no bypass because it is a single pipe system.

It all depends on the plumber at the time and 35 years ago when it was first installed it could have been done a few ways. My hot water coil comes of my single pipe just like a radiator does. I fitted a 2 port valve and thermostat to the cylinder so I could run the boiler at a high temp to heat the house without the water being dangerously hot for the kids.

Looking at my heating circuit i think Stevie Wonder did it.

I actually think the hot water was originally heated by a back boiler behind a coal fire and modified several times long the way. I have 1/2" 3/4" 15mm and 22mm copper in the house and a small amount of 15mm plastic.

Do I want to rip it all out and start again so it works properly - Yes. Do I want to remove floorboards and carpets in every room with a wife and 3 kids running about - No thanks. So it will stay like it is for now

[katex]

Technical information going over my head now fellas. Apologies to members for my self-indulgence on my own problem, however, hope has been useful.

Little aside: Had to laugh at an energy saving tip by a ring in listener this week. 'Turn the radiator off in the bathroom, is cold and makes you pee quicker so saving the light you would put on'

[Neil]

Originally Posted by park381

Wow, think you need to have a look at the different type of heating systems available today Neil. Honeywell "Y" plan to name but one, a 3-port valve will give either hot water only, heating only, or both. If Kate's system is gravity hot water, then the boiler will cycle day and night to retain the temperature in the cylinder, that is unless it is controlled via a time clock. In other words if the boiler is running, some of the boiler output will be going to the hot water.

I do know about several plumbing methods, I just don't want to change mine, even though mine is terrible at the moment.

I suppose working for Baxi I must have learnt a bit

[Neil]

Originally Posted by katex

Technical information going over my head now fellas. Apologies to members for my self-indulgence on my own problem, however, hope has been useful.

Little aside: Had to laugh at an energy saving tip by a ring in listener this week. 'Turn the radiator off in the bathroom, is cold and makes you pee quicker so saving the light you would put on'

Can you not pee in the dark Kate?

[katex]

Originally Posted by Neil

Can you not pee in the dark Kate?

No prefer with the light on these days .. whoops better stop now while I am ahead.