Fracking - fame at last for Lancashire

GEaston · 28-06-2013, 04:49

Staying on a positive theme for the day, lets discuss Fracking. So by complete fluke it turns out that Lancashire is sitting on a mountain of gas.

As with most things, the Accyweb community will want to turn this into a negative immediately, pointing out that there was a small earthquake in Blackpool once. Marge may have fond memories of bucket and spade holidays there as a kid but if you've been there lately you'll notice it's a complete dump, on a par with Hull.

Returning to the benefits of potentially decades of Gas reserves, the positives are numerous:

jobs, jobs, jobs - construction, process, research, operations, sales the list is endless and for one they'll be in your county.
Youth unemployment is over 20% so read point 1 again.
cheaper gas bills.
reduced reliance on Middle East and Russia.
Balance of Payments improves as we export more.
Huge Tax windfall for government. We owe 1.2 Trillion pounds so this matters.
Scotland is stupid enough to vote yes to devolution, so I welcome energy self sufficiency for England.

Previously on this forum people have passionately advocated pulling resources out of the ground even though we were doing it at a massive financial loss (coal mining). Here we have an opportunity to obtain an energy resource and make money on it to the benefit of most of the country. Observations and views welcome.

MargaretR · 28-06-2013, 05:27

We have discussed this before, 2 years ago.
http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f...ool-57860.html

MargaretR · 28-06-2013, 07:21

The Fracking process uses vast quantities of water,
Water resources are in short supply worldwide. Singapore has to import some of theirs and recycles waste water.

Here in NW England you may consider that we have plenty of the wet stuff, yet we still experience water shortages at times. When a commodity becomes scarce the price of it increases, so 'possible' reduction in gas prices will be partly offset by water price increases, as expensive water recycling becomes neccessary. Water recycling plants will add to the infrastructure needed to support fracking. The flares at the well sites pollute the air in the vicinity. In our densly populated nation, we know what the industrial revolution pollution did to the health of recent past generations.

To get the idea of how much water the process uses I found this -
"As many as 25 fracture stages (per horizontal leg) may be involved in preparing a single site for production, each requiring injection of more than 400,000 gallons of water—a possible total of more than 10 million gallons before the well is fully operational. A portion of the injected water flows back to the surface, heavily contaminated with the fracking chemicals and others it has absorbed from the shale. Depending on the local geology, this “return water” may also include radioactive elements."

The extraction of methane may well keep our electricity supply stable, but you may be faced with the choice between 'keeping the lights on' and 'turning on a tap'.

Hobson's choice - sit in the dark or die of thirst, (whilst wearing your gas mask)

GEaston · 28-06-2013, 08:27

Here they didn't like the price Malaysia were charging for water so built desalination plants to turn the sea into drinking water.

Can't they just use seawater ? I'm sure the UK is not short of that.

There is an environmental impact, but technology is constantly improving and I still think the net is positive.

MargaretR · 28-06-2013, 08:49

http://www.schistehappens.com/A%20Do...20the%20UK.pdf
extract -

"6. There is no need to transport water to the site as the UK has lots of sea, big rivers and bountiful natural springs etc.

(response)
Fracking uses millions of gallons of water for each and every well. Much of England is already suffering from serious water shortages in the summer, and it is starting to become a year - round problem . Water conservation is a priority for central government. Local authorities also have water saving high on their stated list of priorities. To contaminate untold millions of gallons of wholesome water under these circumstances is simply unjustifiable. And then to return it to the aquifers is doubly irresponsible.
As for using sea water, salt water is simply no good for fracking."

PS Singapore has a water importation arrangement with Malaysia which lasts for several years yet. The rush is on to build more waste water recycling facilities but in the small land area you have this must impact on 'quality of life'

DtheP47 · 28-06-2013, 11:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by GEaston

As with most things, the Accyweb community will want to turn this into a negative immediately, pointing out that there was a small earthquake in Blackpool once. Marge may have fond memories of bucket and spade holidays there as a kid but if you've been there lately you'll notice it's a complete dump, on a par with Hull.

Returning to the benefits of potentially decades of Gas reserves, the positives .
Previously on this forum people have passionately advocated pulling resources out of the ground even though we were doing it at a massive financial loss (coal mining). Here we have an opportunity to obtain an energy resource and make money on it to the benefit of most of the country. Observations and views welcome.

Anything that boots up industry and the economy will do for me Mr E

Incidentallythe quakes cracking caused by fracking were measured at less than some caused by coal mining in post war years.

MargaretR · 28-06-2013, 12:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by DtheP47

Anything that boots up industry and the economy will do for me Mr E

Incidentallythe quakes cracking caused by fracking were measured at less than some caused by coal mining in post war years.

Only a handful of test wells have been drilled so far.

I do not relish the thought that those defunct coal mines will fill with toxic waste water which would eventually seep into underground aquifers and so back to the surface in unexpected places.

One saving grace for us in east Lancs is that the coal bearing shale we have is unlikely to be worth fracking, because the 'vast methane reserves' are in Cheshire and Bowland where a different type of shale rock predominates.

Take your pics of Pendle hill and the Forest of Bowland now while is is still unspoilt by the fracking. You thought windfarms were an eyesore - wait till you see a fracking site!

Aerial views of fracking sites -
WTFrack.org: Aerial Images of Fracking Pads - Fracking Site Images

Britain's shale gas deposits 'could supply country for 25 years' | Environment | guardian.co.uk

Newtown Creek Watstewater Treatment Plant | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Fracking: Pictures, Videos, Breaking News

Turtle · 28-06-2013, 12:28

I was going to hit the "Like" button Margaret, but don't want to be thought of as supporting Fracking. I do, however, like your views on the subject.

Mog · 28-06-2013, 12:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by GEaston

Staying on a positive theme for the day, lets discuss Fracking. So by complete fluke it turns out that Lancashire is sitting on a mountain of gas.

As with most things, the Accyweb community will want to turn this into a negative immediately, pointing out that there was a small earthquake in Blackpool once. Marge may have fond memories of bucket and spade holidays there as a kid but if you've been there lately you'll notice it's a complete dump, on a par with Hull.

Returning to the benefits of potentially decades of Gas reserves, the positives are numerous:

jobs, jobs, jobs - construction, process, research, operations, sales the list is endless and for one they'll be in your county.
Youth unemployment is over 20% so read point 1 again.
cheaper gas bills.
reduced reliance on Middle East and Russia.
Balance of Payments improves as we export more.
Huge Tax windfall for government. We owe 1.2 Trillion pounds so this matters.
Scotland is stupid enough to vote yes to devolution, so I welcome energy self sufficiency for England.

Previously on this forum people have passionately advocated pulling resources out of the ground even though we were doing it at a massive financial loss (coal mining). Here we have an opportunity to obtain an energy resource and make money on it to the benefit of most of the country. Observations and views welcome.

You my friend are a bit of a dipstick.
1. The jobs created will be for specialists in this field. Therefore specialist will be brought into the area. So there will be no jobs for the locals.
2. See 1. No jobs apart from specialist therfrore youth unemployment remains the same.
3. I remember when we got North Sea gas, it was supposed to be that cheap it was nearly free. Like hell it was. Therefore no cheap gas.
4. We will always rely on others because your government would sooner sell whatever we have at our disposal to others rather than let us have it any cheaper.
5. We have vast reserves of coal throuout GB. Rather than employ the unemployed and start mining again ( we have coal seams up to 37 feet high) under the Warwickshire basin at 500 meters underground between Coventry and Oxford that is a 100 years of modern minings worth. That's one area alone.
We are paying out to other countries in aid now as we have been doing for years 10 billion pounds plus per year.
If you want to discus the for and against of modern mining and you appear to be the expert. Fire away mister.

Margaret Pilkington · 28-06-2013, 12:36

I am for anything(safe) which would bring down the price of energy to the consumers, but I think we would be naive to think that this will really happen.
I am also concerned about the contamination of the water table....I haven't seen anything which has convinced me that the companies doing this fracking will be able to ensure that contamination won't happen.
After all they are not in it to provide a service...they are in it to make a nice fat profit for their shareholders and a windfall for the governmnet.

MargaretR · 28-06-2013, 12:52

One of my grandsons got a masters geology degree last year and works for a geology consultancy firm in Basingstoke.

He recently supervised drilling near Derby. I didn't ask what they were drilling for but I expect it was shale gas (he knows my views on the topic). The east midlands is yet another area which is being considered for extraction.

We have a government who considers anything north of Watford is a wasteland already

DtheP47 · 28-06-2013, 20:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mog

You my friend are a bit of a dipstick.

5. We have vast reserves of coal throuout GB. Rather than employ the unemployed and start mining again ( we have coal seams up to 37 feet high) under the Warwickshire basin at 500 meters underground between Coventry and Oxford that is a 100 years of modern minings worth. That's one area alone.
We are paying out to other countries in aid now as we have been doing for years 10 billion pounds plus per year.
If you want to discus the for and against of modern mining and you appear to be the expert. Fire away mister.

It's been done to death on other threads Mog.
It's the cost of acquisition that's the kicker for domestic coal.
The coal industry has been in decline since the 1st WW, accelerated after the 2nd and the miners strikes did for it in the end.
There has been an inexorable decline in the demand for coal. Even as late as the 1960s, British railways were run on coal power. But, steam power soon vanished in place of diesel and electric. Households used to burn coal for central heating. But, after the Clean Air Act of the 1950s, this rapidly declined as people switched to more modern forms of heating.

I got to take issue with GEaston though "Fame at last for Lancashire"...as if !
Put on your Dunces hat and don't take it off until you have made a list of 20 things Lancashire is famous for.