funny how democracey works for some and not others

[garinda]

Well, I say 'worry'...



but you get my point.

The poor little lambs are easily 'taken advantage of'.

By hook, or by crook.

[Wynonie Harris]

The same poster who said he'd vote for a donkey if they pinned a Labour rosette on it.

It figures.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

The same poster who said he'd vote for a donkey if they pinned a Labour rosette on it.

It figures.

I've just sneaked into the Happy Twilight Retirement Home lounge, and pinned a vote Labour rosette on the seat of poor old Maggie's Tena Lady leisure suit.

Well, a vote's a vote.

Even for an imbecile, who hasn't yet been unmasked, and will therefore be ineligible from casting a vote.

[mobertol]

Originally Posted by garinda

.


The point is, Mr. Suck a Fisherman's European Friend, the British people have never been asked, or voted whether they wanted to be part of some Franco-Germanic controlled federal European state.

Oh what a clever catch-phrase!
Love it -buy British -suck a "balsamic sweet" - over-power the smell of garlic and sauercraut from our EU "friends"!

[ToffeeGuy]

I have no time for Little Englanders. For our country to prosper we need to unite with other European countries to take on the USA and emerging BRIC countries.

I've noticed that many of the posters on this site actually live on the continent. Italy, Spain, France. They seem to like closer links with Europe and seem to have benefited from them.

[cashman]

I have no tome fer cretins meself.

[mobertol]

Being one of those who you mention I wouldn't know if or how I've benefitted exactly. I have tried my best to integrate and love many things about France, Italy and Spain -but as I have always said, I prefered them as separate entities with their own identities -not sucked into something bigger which effectively nullifies their individualism and national identity.
Links -OK- not necessarily living in each others pockets.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by ToffeeGuy

I have no time for Little Englanders. For our country to prosper we need to unite with other European countries to take on the USA and emerging BRIC countries.

I've noticed that many of the posters on this site actually live on the continent. Italy, Spain, France. They seem to like closer links with Europe and seem to have benefited from them.

Take your blinkers off Fraulein Braun.

This site was created so those who live around the world can stay in touch with this area.

As for me, I loved working for a magazine in Germany, and plan to retire to France.

So stick that in your Little Englander pipe, and have a jolly good suck.

With your abilities to reach out and relate to real people, you should perhaps consider moving into politics...if you haven't already.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by ToffeeGuy

I have no time for Little Englanders. For our country to prosper we need to unite with other European countries to take on the USA and emerging BRIC countries.

I've noticed that many of the posters on this site actually live on the continent. Italy, Spain, France. They seem to like closer links with Europe and seem to have benefited from them.

...and when your puppet masters in the Labour party eventually decide they too will have to support a referendum, because otherwise it's a guaranteed vote loser, then you'll also agree that it's the right thing to do democratically?

Talk about having no principles...unless ordered to do so.

You are a silly little Baaaa....lamb, aren't you?

[mobertol]

Originally Posted by ToffeeGuy

I have no time for Little Englanders. For our country to prosper we need to unite with other European countries to take on the USA and emerging BRIC countries.

It's not a war!
Prosperity is not about quick profits made by moving manufacturing where it costs less but is about building something concrete at home - creating real jobs and quality products. That is the base for a strong economy.

Look back in time - Empires have always overstretched themselves and ultimately implode. Time for a re-think - at all levels - Britain is no longer self-sufficient and buys in foodstuffs and goods from abroad below cost at the expense of home-grown produce and products = loss of manufacturing and shrinking agriculture = shooting oneself in the proverbial foot.

Crack open the Fisherman's Friends....

[ToffeeGuy]

Originally Posted by mobertol

Being one of those who you mention I wouldn't know if or how I've benefitted exactly. I have tried my best to integrate and love many things about France, Italy and Spain -but as I have always said, I prefered them as separate entities with their own identities -not sucked into something bigger which effectively nullifies their individualism and national identity.
Links -OK- not necessarily living in each others pockets.

Benefits:

1) Peace in Europe for the best part of 70 years.
2) Free movement of people which allows anyone in the EU to live/work in any other EU country.
3) Both of the above and free trade which, generally, have led to rise in living standards and a more prosperous Europe in the past 70 years and have meant that people are able to move to the Dordogne etc.

As for nullifying individualism and national identity. The UK is a good example of why this wouldn't happen. We are a United Kingdom but England, Wales, Scotland & N.Ireland (and regions there in) all have unique identities but have the same currency, no barriers to trade, free movement, parliamentary democracy, monarch, army etc, etc etc. Same with the USA.

Plus Westminster feels as distant as Brussels to me. For all the good a Westminster government has done for the North West and Lancashire we might as well be governed by Brussels.

The world has changed over the past 100 years. Due to immigration and emigration personal identity isn't about where you live but who you are.

[gynn]

My basic instinct is to say "Yes, let's get out of the EU. It's a complete mess and we would be better off out of it.'

But I will only vote to leave the EU when I have a definitive answer from someone in the know to the following simple question:-

'How much will it cost us?'

My worry is that the desire to return to a world where we weren't members of the EU is like an unhappily married man who wants a divorce so he can go back and live with his mum. Unfortunately, the ex will ensure you are taken to the cleaners to the extent that you will be even more miserable than you were when you were married.

[gynn]

.....and does your mum want you back? She may have let your room to a Brazilian, Russian, Indian or Chinese lodger.

[garinda]

Boy's, boys, all a bit pointless, discussing the whys and wherefores, now.

That will happen when we are given a referendum.

Until then it's all a bit pointless.

As your opinions really count for nothing.

If you think your views are valid, join the fight for a referendum.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by ToffeeGuy

Benefits:

1) Peace in Europe for the best part of 70 years.
2) Free movement of people which allows anyone in the EU to live/work in any other EU country.
3) Both of the above and free trade which, generally, have led to rise in living standards and a more prosperous Europe in the past 70 years and have meant that people are able to move to the Dordogne etc.

As for nullifying individualism and national identity. The UK is a good example of why this wouldn't happen. We are a United Kingdom but England, Wales, Scotland & N.Ireland (and regions there in) all have unique identities but have the same currency, no barriers to trade, free movement, parliamentary democracy, monarch, army etc, etc etc. Same with the USA.

Plus Westminster feels as distant as Brussels to me. For all the good a Westminster government has done for the North West and Lancashire we might as well be governed by Brussels.

The world has changed over the past 100 years. Due to immigration and emigration personal identity isn't about where you live but who you are.

I would get into this argument and challenge some of your concepts, but I fear it would be injurious to my health......and besides as G says....it doesn't amount to a hill of beans because we have yet to be asked.....and, more importantly be told that what we vote for will be acted on. Until then it is all academic.
But Toffe guy, if you love Europe so much, then there is nothing at all stopping you from moving to one of its countries. Greece would probably benefit from your expertise.