funny how democracey works for some and not others

[susie123]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

as for those who came tolive/work over here during the time when the EU said they could freely move between countries of the EU...let them choose, they can stay or they can go...But if the vote was for us to come out of the EU and the bigger 'if' - if it was acted on, then there would be no more free movement....maybe we could get some British people their jobs back.

Doesn't work like that, according to the Lump of Labour fallacy...

Historically, the term "lump of labour" originated to rebut the idea that reducing the number of hours employees are allowed to labour during the working day would lead to a reduction in unemployment. The term has also been used to describe the commonly held beliefs that increasing labour productivity and immigration cause unemployment. Whereas some argue that immigrants displace domestic workers, others believe this to be a fallacy, arguing that such a view relies on a belief that the number of jobs in the economy is fixed, whereas in reality immigration increases the size of the economy, thus creating more jobs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lump_of_labour_fallacy

[garinda]

Originally Posted by gynn

Republic of Ireland

Public voted to reject the new EU Constitution. Government reaction was to launch a publicity campaign and hold a second referendum. Result? Acceptance.

And how many of the thousands of agreements/statutes/concordats signed by the British government in Brussels on which millions of people have based life determining decisions (where to live, where to work,etc etc etc) are also legally binding?

A simple YES/NO vote on the UK membership would be an exercise in naivety. We are in. Get used to it!

Good job you were only a pen-pusher at the council.

You're job probably wouldn't have been very secure, if you were reliant on garnering public support.

It's an overwhelming majority voting NO, so far.

Get over it.

[Margaret Pilkington]

The Lump of Labour is considered to be a fallacy, rather than proven to be one....and I don't want to split hairs but, I did say 'maybe' it would get some British people their jobs back.

[Guinness]

Originally Posted by gynn

Republic of Ireland

Public voted to reject the new EU Constitution. Government reaction was to launch a publicity campaign and hold a second referendum. Result? Acceptance.

Nope, they changed the goalposts, tweaked the question, and used tactics akin to, your firstborn will be eaten by locusts by the Germans if you say no.

And how many of the thousands of agreements/statutes/concordats signed by the British government in Brussels on which millions of people have based life determining decisions (where to live, where to work,etc etc etc) are also legally binding?

That's why there are judges...to interpret the law and overturn it, where necessary, when it is found to be unreasonable

A simple YES/NO vote on the UK membership would be an exercise in naivety. We are in. Get used to it!

Where is your evidence that a yes/no would be naive?

Simplistically this country voted yes to a trade agreement, (which I'm ok with) which was somehow, turned into a united states of europe, interfering with the policies, laws and economy of it's member states, governed by freeloaders, bankers and the Germans, who are not even accountable to it's own internal assessors (which I'm not ok with)

[cashman]

Well said Guinness, Think many folk,me included were O.K. wi a simple trade agreement. The fact now it aint the case, perhaps Gynn should get oer that.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Guinness

Where is your evidence that a yes/no would be naive?

There isn't any.

He, himself, voted in the 1975 referendum.

Which was very clearly worded, with a simple yes/no voting option.

The actual wording being...

"Do you think the UK should stay in the European Community (Common Market)?"

Being clear, and straightfoward is only naive, when you're frightened of what's really the only right thing to do.

Which is to let the people of Britain decide what they want themselves.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by garinda

There isn't any.

He, himself, voted in the 1975 referendum.

Which was very clearly worded, with a simple yes/no voting option.

The actual wording being...

"Do you think the UK should stay in the European Community (Common Market)?"

Perhaps Gynn was simple back in 75? But super clever now?

[Mancie]

The yes/no vote in 74 was contested by both major parties and at that time the Labour policiy was a NO vote and the Tories was for a YES.. the Yes vote won easily.. now I reckon some of those who voted YES are on this forum..so it's own up time.. I was not one of them.

[Guinness]

I voted yes, it was my first vote, I knew nothing, and cared about nothing except where I could get after hours drinking. My dad said he'd voted yes, so I did too

Here's a novel idea raise the voting age to 40,.... Demographic...married, womaniser/cougar, kids, smoker, drinker, driver, lapsed religious..and more importantly 'informed'

Oh wait...the politicians don't want that kind of demographic..they want the easily led like I was at 18, they don't want 'informed'

[cashman]

I voted Yes back then, cos i believe the Common Market was a great idea,n i was always a Labour Voter, But unlike some i have never been a sheep.

[garinda]

I was ten in 1975, when we last had a referendum on Europe.

We had a mock referendum at my primary school.

I headed the No campaign.

We won.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Guinness

My dad said he'd voted yes, so I did to.

Weird.

Never really understood that copy-cat mentality myself.

Hopefully you never saw your Dad 'on' your Mother, so to speak.

[cashman]

Me mam n dad voted No, always had me own mind. Am near sure also me late wife voted No. Disagreed, but proved she was no sheep either.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by cashman

Me mam n dad voted No, always had me own mind. Am near sure also me late wife voted No. Disagreed, but proved she was no sheep either.

There's no shame, whatever way people voted in 1975.

Others have already posted how they voted back then, and have since changed their minds.

The fact of the matter, nearly forty years later, is that the European Union has sod all to do with a purely trade alliance, which the Common Market was sold as, way back when.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Guinness

Nope, they changed the goalposts, tweaked the question, and used tactics akin to, your firstborn will be eaten by locusts by the Germans if you say no.



That's why there are judges...to interpret the law and overturn it, where necessary, when it is found to be unreasonable



Where is your evidence that a yes/no would be naive?

Simplistically this country voted yes to a trade agreement, (which I'm ok with) which was somehow, turned into a united states of europe, interfering with the policies, laws and economy of it's member states, governed by freeloaders, bankers and the Germans, who are not even accountable to it's own internal assessors (which I'm not ok with)

Spot on there Guinness, absolutely spot on, wonder what would happen in the government of GB couldn't sign off on its accounts for 16 years