gay adoption - Page 8

Margaret Pilkington · 27-01-2007, 14:18

Slinky...maybe I have misunderstood your post where you cite freedom of choice....isn't that what the Catholic adoption agencies are being denied....a freedom to choose where they place their children to be adopted? They do not choose to say that same sex couple may not adopt children.....only that they may not adopt children from THEM...they will, however, facilitate the same sex couple to adopt by DIRECTING them to a society who allow for same sex partners adopting. What is wrong with that? In fact the Catholic Church is being discriminated against by being forced by law to abandon their long held teachings.
And as for the posts that decry the Catholic Church for hiding child abuse - that isn't what this thread is about..it is a totally different subject and should be dealt with separately.

In ALL adoptions the childs needs should be seen as paramount and that should be the ONLY factor in determining who should adopt.

shakermaker · 27-01-2007, 14:54

The fact is though the Catholic view is completely discriminative and without reason.

Just drawing absurd conclusions from age old idiocies.

garinda · 27-01-2007, 16:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

And as for the posts that decry the Catholic Church for hiding child abuse - that isn't what this thread is about..it is a totally different subject and should be dealt with separately.

No it isn't, but there is more than a touch of irony about it.

garinda · 27-01-2007, 16:23

What about Catholics who run B & B's or hotels?

Should there views be taken into account in law, were by they can refuse, and discriminate against same sex couples who want a double room, or for that fact unmarried couples?

garinda · 27-01-2007, 16:33

The Catholic Church didn't seem to hold much store by the Law in these cases of child abuse. They were quite happy just to move the priest to another Parish, where very often they went on to offend again. In fact they did everything in their power to stop the Law from bringing the Priests to a judical trial.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_C...ex_abuse_cases

Gayle · 27-01-2007, 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

What about Catholics who run B & B's or hotels?

Should there views be taken into account in law, were by they can refuse, and discriminate against same sex couples who want a double room, or for that fact unmarried couples?

Actually I think yes, if you run a business whatever it is you should be able to choose who you deal with. Good business sense dictates that you don't turn customers away but at the end of the day you should be allowed to refuse whoever you want. It's the same point as Margaret has been making - it's not that the catholic church is saying that a same sex couple can't adopt (or can't stay in a b&b) just that they would rather not facillitate it.

The catholic church is coming in for a bit of flak here but it's only sticking to its principles. On lots of other threads haven't we discussed how the fabric of society is being eroded away by relaxing laws, accommodating other cultures etc. On this one, they're trying to stick to their guns.

Btw - I personally feel that same sex couples could be good parents and should be allowed to adopt but I actually support the catholic church's point of view.

chav1 · 27-01-2007, 16:46

i have mixed feelings about same sex couples adopting and although i think same sex couples can provide as stable enviroment for a child i do think that man and wife couples should be given prefernce basicly because mum and dad is how its supposed to be , you can argue to your blue in teh teeth but if it was supposed to be mum and mum or dad and dad then there wouldnt be 2 sex's

saying that 2 gay parents is better than none

its probably more difficult for a gay male based couple to get a child because their options are limited where as lesbian couples can resort to a one night stand to get pregnant or the old turkey baster

also despite how much peopel claim we have got better at accepting homosexuality its a whole different ball game in teh school yard and i could imagine a lot of hassle and bullying for a child that was from a gay household

some things i agree with , some things i dont but this one to me i have mixed feelings on

i dont agree whenn peopel say teh child will grow up gay as well because like it was best put in will and grace when a man refused to sit next to a gay man

"homosexuality is genetic you cant catch it"

garinda · 27-01-2007, 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle

Actually I think yes, if you run a business whatever it is you should be able to choose who you deal with. Good business sense dictates that you don't turn customers away but at the end of the day you should be allowed to refuse whoever you want. It's the same point as Margaret has been making - it's not that the catholic church is saying that a same sex couple can't adopt (or can't stay in a b&b) just that they would rather not facillitate it.

The catholic church is coming in for a bit of flak here but it's only sticking to its principles. On lots of other threads haven't we discussed how the fabric of society is being eroded away by relaxing laws, accommodating other cultures etc. On this one, they're trying to stick to their guns.

Btw - I personally feel that same sex couples could be good parents and should be allowed to adopt but I actually support the catholic church's point of view.

From April in England and Wales it will be illegal to refuse services, including accomodation, based on a person's sexual orientation. It was passed on a 199 to 68 majority earlier this month.

Being concerned with local rather than national politics, perhaps you missed this rather important news story.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6243323.stm

Gayle · 27-01-2007, 16:51

No, I'm well aware of the story. I am totally for human rights and every single person is equal in my mind - I wouldn't refuse you b&b - but surely if we're talking human rights then every person also has the right to deal with whoever they want. Be honest, would you want to go and stay at a b&b where you knew that the landlord was only having you on sufference?

Just as an aside - I was refused entry to a gay club a while back because I was with a man and clearly straight! I wasn't thrilled but I didn't make a fuss because it was the policy of the club!

garinda · 27-01-2007, 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle

Actually I think yes, if you run a business whatever it is you should be able to choose who you deal with.

Thankfully from April the Law states differently.

Gayle · 27-01-2007, 16:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

Thankfully from April the Law states differently.

If you were going to a town that only had one b&b then it would be very frustrating if they were to refuse you on the grounds of your sexuality or even unmarriedness - yes I agree. But equally, if you were heading to Blackpool - where there are a large number of b&bs - would you really want to stop in the one with the disapproving landlady or wouldn't you rather move next door to the one with welcoming arms?

garinda · 27-01-2007, 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle

If you were going to a town that only had one b&b then it would be very frustrating if they were to refuse you on the grounds of your sexuality or even unmarriedness - yes I agree. But equally, if you were heading to Blackpool - where there are a large number of b&bs - would you really want to stop in the one with the disapproving landlady or wouldn't you rather move next door to the one with welcoming arms?

Not the point. The Law will stop that discrimination, even if it goes against the beliefs of the owner, manager, or even the receptionist.

Gayle · 27-01-2007, 17:02

My point is that it will not stop the landlady or business owner from being anti-gay. By forcing them to do something which is against their principles is that right. I'm not saying that I like it and I don't think anybody should discriminate against anybody but what I don't like is people being forced not to discriminate - it leads to less understanding and less tolerance.

shakermaker · 27-01-2007, 17:03

Beliefs or principles should NEVER justify discrimination

garinda · 27-01-2007, 17:06

Perhaps the next time I'm discriminated against by Muslim women, when asked to choreograph a fashion show, and told they can't work with me, I'll be seeking legal advice as to whether I should sue.