General Election?

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by accyman

i would rather have seen councilors laughing it out of council and slapping the silly tory that thought the motion up

Can't do that, cocker.

Unfortunately.

[accyman]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

Can't do that, cocker.

Unfortunately.

may i suggest a new position in council where upon someone is employed to instantly set about any councilor with a baseball bat that brings up anything none Hyndburn related ?

im free thursdays and have my own bat

[cashman]

Originally Posted by accyman

i have family in rishtion and also quite a few friends and yes the people of rishton as a whole i would say dont give a hoot about people form kashmir unless they dare buy a house to live in there lol.Mind you iv yet to speak to anyone that can figure out what buisness HBC had sticking its nose into foriegn affairs but like you said teh torys brought the motion forward.However going with teh flow isnt much better i would rather have seen councilors laughing it out of council and slapping the silly tory that thought the motion up

It seems to me the whole motion was nothing more than an arse kissing exercise by a councilor to his constituants in the hope of obtaining their votes

I have no doubt it probably was, So why support such a thing? Thats sod all to do wi common sense to me.

[accyman]

Originally Posted by cashman

I have no doubt it probably was, So why support such a thing? Thats sod all to do wi common sense to me.

i suppose if labour had thrown it out point blank they woudl have been called racists and i have no doubt they would have been beaten over the head with the racist card by the councilor who brought it forward but even so abstaining would be my option if i couldnt throw it out.

i suppose if they didnt like it though they could sod off back to kashmir if they felt hard done by here. Im sure things were easier for them back there

[garinda]

Originally Posted by cashman

I have no doubt it probably was, So why support such a thing?

Perhaps because they're all not 'inherently against' arse licking anyone, if they think it might secure them a few more votes.

[jaysay]

What you have to remember here is that both parties on HBC have representatives from that neck of the woods and I've always inscribed to the fact that members of the Asian community don't give a fig about the party representation, its a matter have having somebody in both camps to get the best for their area no matter what the issues are, think its called self preservation

[garinda]

Originally Posted by jaysay

What you have to remember here is that both parties on HBC have representatives from that neck of the woods and I've always inscribed to the fact that members of the Asian community don't give a fig about the party representation, its a matter have having somebody in both camps to get the best for their area no matter what the issues are, think its called self preservation

Cllr. Dads come in matching pairs.

A blue one, and a red one.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by garinda

Cllr. Dads come in matching pairs.

A blue one, and a red one.

Exactly I don't honestly think much store is taken on the political angle, its a matter of getting the best representation, no doubt if say the Lib/Dems were active around here, the Asian community would strive to get a representative in their ranks, although it might not be the case with the BNP

[Acrylic-bob]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

Fair point, but when in Full Council you sometimes have to weigh up the bigger picture in Hyndburn. It might not affect Rishton but that particular motion had relevance to residents of my counterparts in several other wards, such as Central and Springhill. As a representative of Hyndburn I wasn't against it and I am vehemently opposed to abstaining unless it is absolutely necessary (which it rarely is).

It seemed like a tactical motion brought to council in order to show that the Conservatives are dead keen on Kashmiris. I may be wrong. However just because something doesn't affect me doesn't mean that I automatically vote against it. I have put up several motions and questions which single out Rishton but my colleagues have still voted for them.

As I have said before, I don't look forward to international motions at Full Council again.

Have we not exhausted this topic yet? There really is nothing more to say.

I have read this post several times and It still niggles me.

Firstly, I have to correct you, Ken. You are not a representative of Hyndburn, you are the representative of some of the people of Rishton. I think that you will find that there is a significant difference.

Secondly following on from my first observation, you say;

"As a representative of Hyndburn (sic) I wasn't against it and I am vehemently opposed to abstaining unless it is absolutely necessary (which it rarely is)...
...It seemed like a tactical motion brought to council in order to show that the Conservatives are dead keen on Kashmiris.... However just because something doesn't affect me doesn't mean that I automatically vote against it."

So it seemed to you that the motion was, as you said earlier, blatant 'electioneering'. Which, while it may not be illegal is certainly morally and ethically questionable. In such a situation do you not feel that you have a responsibility to the people who elected you and whose views you represent to maintain the dignity of the of the body on which you sit by pointing out to 'electioneering' councillors, and those who encourage them, the error of their ways, if only by the simple expedient of either abstention or voting against whatever motion they bring forward.

You say the Kashmiri Motion does not affect you. Maybe not personally, even though you are certainly having to spend a good deal of time defending your position here. But it does affect the people whom you represent, of which, I am one.

Speaking personally, I am far from happy that my representative took part in a vote on a motion that he knew to be wrong and outside the competence of HBC. A vote which resulted in this Borough and its Council being held up to ridicule and contempt in both the national and international press.

And to forestall a possible rejoiner, I ridicule and criticise the Council and it's members because I see such scrutiny and correction, where necessary, as part of my civic duty.


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[Acrylic-bob]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

It took about five minutes to deal with and it wasn't even my motion. I have better things to worry about than something I glossed over several months ago.

We can't just throw something out because we don't like it.

Take it up with the Conservatives for bringing it to Council in the first place.

This statement is simply breathtaking. Firstly in its arrogance, secondly in impudence and thirdly in its blithe and glib ignorance of the consequences that may flow from the actions to which it refers.

Let me explain Ken; Kashmir may be on the other side of the world, but what is happening there is every bit as real as the London 7/7 bombings or the outrages perpetrated by the IRA. People are being killed, brutally, barbarically. Passing a Motion in Council may seem like a bit of procedural fun to you, as you say 'it took five minutes'. But that five minutes grants legitimacy to murder and terror. Giving succour and support to extremists, on whichever side of this particular argument, contributes to the dreadful toll of lives ruined, families shattered and innocent men, women and children, who have been and will continue to be, killed and maimed. People you do not know nor will ever meet and, to judge by your comments thus far, could not care less about.

As I wrote earlier, I am far from happy with this.


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[Ken Moss]

Poor Bob, this is obviously something close to your heart. You deride me for voting in favour and then chide me for taking a distanced stance. I'm afraid I have singularly failed to be on the reciving end of this national and international ridicule of which you speak, or even be made aware of it. I would gently advise you to keep things in perspective, I think you'll probably find that well over 95% of Hyndburn residents are more worried about clean streets and nice parks than our stance on Kashmir and don't give a toss whether it came to Council or not. This didn't make the national papers whereas my attempts to lead the way on tackling dog fouling have, work out which is really having the bigger impact.

To correct you, I am a Hyndburn Councillor and a representative of everyone in Rishton. Whether your or anyone else votes for me I'm afraid I still represent you. I get people venting spleen at me every day on topics which they consider to be the most important concern in their life. In comparison to some of the messages I get, you aren't even trying.

Sometimes you just have to step back and see the bigger picture then work out what is really worth pursuing.

[garinda]

Thanks for stoking the fire.

It was in danger of going out.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob

People are being killed, brutally, barbarically. Passing a Motion in Council may seem like a bit of procedural fun to you, as you say 'it took five minutes'. But that five minutes grants legitimacy to murder and terror.

Cllr. Moss didn't seen overly concerned, when it was pointed out, that because of crass stupidity on their part, Hyndburn Borough Council's official support, and sanctioning of one side in this conflict, is now being used by terrorist supporting propagandists around the world.

Giving this as his glib answer, in reply...

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

You mean the news reports aren't telling the whole truth???

Oh, the sleep I'll lose.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by garinda

Cllr. Moss didn't seen overly concerned, when it was pointed out, that because of crass stupidity on their part, Hyndburn Borough Council's official support, and sanctioning of one side in this conflict, is now being used by terrorist supporting propagandists around the world.

Giving this as his glib answer, in reply...

Labour politicians rarely loose sleep over the political foibles Rindi, you don't see Tony and Gordon bleary eye through lake of sleep and they sure as hell don't have a conscience on the after dinner speaking gravy train

[Acrylic-bob]

After suryeying the opinion of half a dozen English Councils I can find no evidence to support your contention that as a councillor you represent Hyndburn. It would appear that the only way that you could execise such a mandate would be as a result of a vote by the entire council, in the same way that G Jones is a member of Parliament but may not claim to represent Parliament without a mandate from Parliament. You represent the people of the ward that elected you, which, the last time I looked, was Rishton.
This may seem to you like splitting hairs but the difference is significant and I would have thought that you, for one would have appreciated it. This is after all the same mistake that Britcliffe made. It is but a few short steps from there to believing that you are worth far more than you are paid, or that the people of Hyndburn ought to think themselves lucky to have the services of someone of such a high calibre. Hubris, as Britcliffe is discovering at his leisure, oft goes before a fall.

It is clear from your comments that nothing I say will change your opinion or indeed have any effect whatsoever.
all that now remains is to remind you of your reply to non-voter tommiasfc, earlier in this thread (#15);

"Whilst there are always going to be issues that voters wish the government had taken a different direction on, I will always take the same stance on elections - if you don't vote, you have no right to complain.There are local elections every year, tempered by periodical general elections to keep things really interesting. This is your chance to say how you feel so get out there and use it.
'I don't vote' is leaving the doors wide open for idle chancers who just happen to be wearing the right badge."

I find the last sentence particularly ironic.



Congratulations Ken, you are the lucky recipient of the first ever Accyweb Chucked Brick.



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