Getting More Than A bit Scary

[Royboy39]

Originally Posted by blazey

So many people reoffend after being imprisoned for minor crimes that I see no point in enforcing a failing measure. The answer is finding new forms of punishment which will make people stop and think, I just don't wish to be the person that suggests a different punishment, because it is the government who should be under scrutiny, not I.

Blazey...............put your gob in gear before responding to a lot of people
who have experienced over many years the changes that have occured,
The abolition,. through funding, of the Borstal System, Remand Homes, Mental Institutions...........Mental Patients are now being housed in prisons..........Is that right?
A hell of a lot of people in our society are not in a position to stop and think...........they are treat as criminals when they are mentally sick.
Many people do reoffend because they have not the mental capacity to do otherwise.

[polly]

I have to ask what was the other child doing out alone? I can understand that a 9 year old is permited to walk alone in daylight to grannies but why was the other child out alone?
Let's make the assumption that child 2 is out alone for hours on end just to get him out of parents way, is that really the type of parent that is going to sufficiently care enough to chastise him and point out that knife carrying is wrong?

As for giving teachers the right to hit children a good teacher does not need that right. I promise you I have walked into classes of delinquent 15 year olds and silenced them with a mere look, that is what good teachers do, physical punishment in school is not needed unless the teacher is a failure.
What is needed in schools nowadays is the ability for staff to exclude persistently troublesome pupils more easily. Forget exclusion Units which are often seen as holiday camps, just throw the kid before the cancer spreads. Yes the excluded kid then goes off and spends day after day getting into trouble, that is why, as I have said before, we need to get them away from their home enviroment where the problem started.

Now the law, we all know that is an a**, so maybe we need less law students and more common sense.

[steeljack]

seems to me the various police authorities need to take a good look at their hiring practises,get away from all quotas , what use in Gods name is a 5' 0" tall, overwieght Albainan lactose intolerant lesbian PC ? .....and the all others who have been hired so they reflect local communities ....
Think it would be best for all if the Police did their hiring from amongst the men and women who have finished their terms in the armed services , maybe offer them a decent hiring bonus, or a county council financed low interest mortage, these are the folks you want on the front line on streets ,not some jumped up ex-security guard whose last job allowed him to wear carpet slippers to work .

[shakermaker]

It seems, through reading comments of our more experienced members, that the state we live in now has been a long time coming. Our strong state has been chipped away at over the years. I don't think there's any suitable quick fix for things like knife crime.

This country needs a complete blitz in terms of morals and values. The laws have become totalitarian and farcical. Bans, ASBOs, jailing parents, curfews, arrest quotas, positive discrimination et cetera won't make things better at all. They just create more tension, more anger and more violence.

Generations younger than myself are lost without guidance to adulthood. Blair & Brown's focus on targets have left them with a shoddy education system that forgets education is more about raising young people than putting more examination passes on the OFSTED report.

Sorry to be grim, but I don't see a way out. None of the political parties offer anything solid upon which to rebuild our state. If only I could be in Downing Street and bang some heads together and bring about some realism. I fear for the future of Britain, I really do. No one trusts anyone, the media makes us all scared s***less of what's on our doorstep, the younger generations are being left to drag themselves up... it's heading towards anomie.

[blazey]

Originally Posted by Royboy39

Blazey...............put your gob in gear before responding to a lot of people
who have experienced over many years the changes that have occured,
The abolition,. through funding, of the Borstal System, Remand Homes, Mental Institutions...........Mental Patients are now being housed in prisons..........Is that right?
A hell of a lot of people in our society are not in a position to stop and think...........they are treat as criminals when they are mentally sick.
Many people do reoffend because they have not the mental capacity to do otherwise.

I think I suggested elsewhere the problem with the number of mentally ill people in prisons. I can't post the same thing in every thread, but if you use your mind to piece them together you might see my points.

However, I do contend that reoffending is due to mental illness. A VERY small percentage of prisoners in this country have committed serious offenses such as rape, murder, paedophilia etc. Most are petty thefts, muggings, people not paying their tv licences, benefit fraud. All of those can be linked with poverty. Which is funny, because I thought we had a party that was meant to be salvaging the working class from this so-called mess that the tory party left behind, but all I have heard today is tales about the knife culture not existing back then, and ways to fix the problems of our prisons that are overloaded with petty criminals, most of which committed their crimes due to the poverty labour are meant to solve, and they're getting worse, not better. Instead of helping them, we're just tagging them so we know where they are. It solves nothing.

I might not have lived during your entire life, but I can see when something needs to be done, and when it isn't being one regardless of the number of promises made by this so-called working class party. They're DETRIMENTAL to the working class people, yet they still manage to make you think it's all in favour of the working class.

Why would anyone in their right mind vote Labour, when they're clearly doing absolutely nothing good for the working class? I don't understand it at all, because I just can't think of a reason for it other than people simply ENJOY having things to complain about. What would you all be talking about if there were no stabbings, rapes, wars, terrorist attacks etc? You'd be BORED without the chavs stabbing each other over their dinner money.

[cashman]

why would anyone in their right mind come out with rubbish like you just did blazey? it sure beats the hell out of me.

[blazey]

Originally Posted by cashman

why would anyone in their right mind come out with rubbish like you just did blazey? it sure beats the hell out of me.

I haven't been asleep yet. You should have seen some of the stuff I deleted. It didn't even make sense.

[BERNADETTE]

Didn't know this was a thread about the failings of the labour party

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by blazey

I haven't been asleep yet. You should have seen some of the stuff I deleted. It didn't even make sense.

To be quite honest a lot of what you say doesn't make sense blazey, but it is easy to see why our society is going down the tubes if we are continually turning out law students withy your perspective on life. It appears whenever there is a crisis the Government have a knee jerk reaction and pass more laws, we don't need more laws all we need its for the police to be able to inforce the laws we already have. Only this weekend its been said that new legislation will be brought in to combat underage drinking in public, why? Its is already an offence to be drunk in a public place no matter what age you are, end of. The first thing this government did was to ban hand guns, as if that was going to make the slightest difference to criminal eliment, you could just imagine couldn't you, "hey lads we can't go tooled up on that bank job next Friday Tony Blair just banned hand guns, we'll just have to go back to the sawn off". Since the dogooders took over everything in society everything's gone belly up, oh smacking children isn't the answer, well it was when I was young and there are a lot of people my age on here that will agree. A headmaster (oh Sorry Headteacher must be PC) said not to long ago that children using the "F" word more than 5 times in a lesson would be sent out of the class, 5 flaming times, give me strength. The only way is to get back to old values, where kid are brought up to respect authority, be it at home, in school, or the police, then and only then will life start to make any sort of sence

[grannyclaret]

Originally Posted by blazey

So many people reoffend after being imprisoned for minor crimes that I see no point in enforcing a failing measure. The answer is finding new forms of punishment which will make people stop and think, I just don't wish to be the person that suggests a different punishment, because it is the government who should be under scrutiny, not I.

A BLEEDING GOOD HIDING WOULDENT GO AMISS,,,
"BRING BACK THE BIRCH"
YOU WOULD SOON HAVE MORE ROOM IN THE PRISONS.

[polly]

Originally Posted by steeljack

seems to me the various police authorities need to take a good look at their hiring practises,get away from all quotas , what use in Gods name is a 5' 0" tall, overwieght Albainan lactose intolerant lesbian PC ? .....and the all others who have been hired so they reflect local communities ....
Think it would be best for all if the Police did their hiring from amongst the men and women who have finished their terms in the armed services , maybe offer them a decent hiring bonus, or a county council financed low interest mortage, these are the folks you want on the front line on streets ,not some jumped up ex-security guard whose last job allowed him to wear carpet slippers to work .

The majority of ex forces personnel are the last people we need in our police force. They are too used to being ordered around not having too think for themselves and have no idea of the world these kids come from. Also they themselves are from a social grouping that tends to idolise alcohol and thuggery which is the last thigs these kids should be exposed to.

Myself I would propose that the police force recruits ordinary people who have successfully brought up children of their own and allow them to use their instinctive powers of judgememnt. When you have had had children you just know whi9ch are the really bad ones, which have been lead astray and which have parents who are a waste of space. This can not be learn t in any Army.

[Royboy39]

Originally Posted by polly

The majority of ex forces personnel are the last people we need in our police force. They are too used to being ordered around not having too think for themselves and have no idea of the world these kids come from. Also they themselves are from a social grouping that tends to idolise alcohol and thuggery which is the last thigs these kids should be exposed to.

Myself I would propose that the police force recruits ordinary people who have successfully brought up children of their own and allow them to use their instinctive powers of judgememnt. When you have had had children you just know whi9ch are the really bad ones, which have been lead astray and which have parents who are a waste of space. This can not be learn t in any Army.

Sorry Polly but that is absolute rubbish.

Today's Armed Forces are taught trades which are mostly high tech, away from the short back and sides brigade of yesteryear.
Almost all of our servicemen on active service will have been taught policing skills which are used to great effect in everyday life and death situations.
There may be one or two 'bad apples' who do go over the top on nights out, but they are identified very quickly and shown the door.
The art of policing is to know the enemy. be it yobs, terrorists, muggers or opposing armed enemies.
I have been employed by MOD as a serviceman, and have employed ex servicemen over the years. I would have no hesitation whatsoever of hiring ex servicemen.
To suggest that these men and women can be bracketed in the terms that you put forward, is outrageous in the extreme.

[derekgas]

Its true what myself and others have been saying all along, give some control back to parents, teachers, police and the courts, I am living proof that cessation of adequate punishment in the home leads to worse behaviour than when children could be chastised properly.

[cashman]

glad ya posted that royboy, saved me getting told off again, never seen such drivel.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by cashman

glad ya posted that royboy, saved me getting told off again, never seen such drivel.

I totally agree with you cashy, and I wouldn't dream of telling you off, us old uns must stick together