Getting rid of Tories ...

[Margaret Pilkington]

OK Less......so send the women back to their country to fight too......Yes, women can do the work that was previously seen as a male role...of course they can.I don't quite know how I feel about women on the front lines. Maybe this is because I would have great difficulty in doing that job myself.

I also agree with your view that killers, whatever their gender deserve their fate.(whether that be to die, or whether it be that they live with the knowledge that they have stolen life from another.......a self made hell is the worst place that you can ever have to inhabit)

[Less]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

OK Less......so send the women back to their country to fight too......Yes, women can do the work that was previously seen as a male role...of course they can.I don't quite know how I feel about women on the front lines. Maybe this is because I would have great difficulty in doing that job myself.

I also agree with your view that killers, whatever their gender deserve their fate.(whether that be to die, or whether it be that they live with the knowledge that they have stolen life from another.......a self made hell is the worst place that you can ever have to inhabit)

Anyone that is prepared to allow others to fight no matter what gender, should be prepared to fight themselves, this is where they have the advantage, their women are prepared to fight until the last of anything is annihilated, our woman are given the idea they shouldn't do such things it isn't ladylike, well, I'm sorry, if you ladies continue to be ladies, their women will not hesitate in taking you, your loved ones and anything you stand for away from you, because they are brought up that way.

Yeah right, I'm being extreme, but only using words, not, chopping heads off for someone on facebook or a twitter page.

[Margaret Pilkington]

It isn't anything to do with being ladylike.....well, not in my case at least.
I spent a lot of my life caring.....looking after people.
To some extent, that is what I am still doing.......so killing, violence, is something that I would struggle with.
In conflict, there is more to be considered than those who wield arms.

[Retlaw]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

I am not racist, I have worked with many races and creeds, I have helped many races and creeds get back their health...so how can I be seen as racist?

Margaret, that statement doesn't work on me, we had to put fires out and rescue them, we did it because we had to, not because we liked it, neither could you walk off the ward and say I'm not treating them, you did it cause you had to.
Which gets back to my point WW3 or not, they must be anialated, and if it takes nukes then so be it, it took nukes to correct the same thinking in the Japs in WW2, similar thinking and mental attitude, if theres collateral damage like Horoshima then so be it, but the sooner them isis are wiped out the better, before some one even thinks of giving them nukes, because they would use them without hesitation, indisriminately.

[Eric]

Originally Posted by Less

their women are prepared to fight

Kinda like the Israelis, eh.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Retlaw

Margaret, that statement doesn't work on me, we had to put fires out and rescue them, we did it because we had to, not because we liked it, neither could you walk off the ward and say I'm not treating them, you did it cause you had to.
Which gets back to my point WW3 or not, they must be anialated, and if it takes nukes then so be it, it took nukes to correct the same thinking in the Japs in WW2, similar thinking and mental attitude, if theres collateral damage like Horoshima then so be it, but the sooner them isis are wiped out the better, before some one even thinks of giving them nukes, because they would use them without hesitation, indisriminately.

Well, Retlaw....that might have been true for you....but not for me.
I loved my job with a passion.
Had it been any different, I would have given it up and done something else....because by this time I knew that I was capable of more than just a job.
Nursing was never 'just a job' for me.
Your views are yours....but in my opinion they are flawed because of the consequences of the aftermath.

[cashman]

I have to agree wi retlaw, fer me the ONLY way is to wipe ISIS off the face of the earth, its that simple.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Cashy...we are in agreement...but the only thing I think needs consideration is HOW?

In my opinion(and I know this isn't worth a lot) I feel that it should be done by other muslims taking back the control of their own countries......rather than the western world(this would give them something to gripe about until the day of the last trump).
We do not want to make them feel like they are the victims of western aggression.

OK, if they start the process and then ask for the help of western forces....that would be a hugely different matter......then it would be a case of hey up and boots on the ground.
But moderate muslims have to be the instigators of this process...of this I have no doubt.

Bombs and bullets will never beat the ideology...unless the indigent people do the standing up for themselves, it takes a muslim mind to beat a muslim mind.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Cashy...we are in agreement...but the only thing I think needs consideration is HOW?

In my opinion(and I know this isn't worth a lot) I feel that it should be done by other muslims taking back the control of their own countries......rather than the western world(this would give them something to gripe about until the day of the last trump).
We do not want to make them feel like they are the victims of western aggression.

OK, if they start the process and then ask for the help of western forces....that would be a hugely different matter......then it would be a case of hey up and boots on the ground.
But moderate muslims have to be the instigators of this process...of this I have no doubt.

Bombs and bullets will never beat the ideology...unless the indigent people do the standing up for themselves, it takes a muslim mind to beat a muslim mind.

Trouble with that i think,it is very unlikely to happen, summat like wi the japanese in WW2, they refused to surrender, no-one i'm aware of stood up to say call it a day? they soon changed their minds after a couple of nukes.

[Eric]

Originally Posted by cashman

they soon changed their minds after a couple of nukes.

A convenient way of thinking, both for the Japanese and the Americans. Convenient, but wrong. Japan, with over sixty major cities already destroyed, surrendered because of the Russian declaration of war and invasion of Manchuria on August 8, 1945. Just because many people have believed the A-Bomb myth for 70 years doesn't make it true. This is not a speculative assessment; the minutes of the Japanese Supreme War Direction Council reveal this.

[Margaret Pilkington]

The landscape of warfare has changed dramatically since then Cashy.
And I didn't say it was likely to happen, but I said that is what should happen.
any other scenario and muslims would see it purely as western aggression .......no way would we, (the western world) be seen to be restoring lands to the people who they belong to.
This can be seen by the way some people have recently been trying to manipulate history of WW2.

I know that the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbour, but they did not (to my knowledge...and I am prepared to be educated if anyone knows different) take guerilla action, make forays to detonate bombs in public places with the intention of mass murderof civilians in other countries.
To my knowledge they did not mingle covertly as tourists/members of the public, with the intent of causing harm and destruction....they wore uniforms....they operated on a different level....in a war that was a 'declared war'.
As I say the landscape of everything has changed. Negotiation does not seem to be a realistic option, but I am not sure that western force would be a solution either.

Yes, ISIS need to be defeated, but with intelligent means.
Cut off their money, cut off their ability to communicate, cut off their supplies.....that would be a start I suppose.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Eric

A convenient way of thinking, both for the Japanese and the Americans. Convenient, but wrong. Japan, with over sixty major cities already destroyed, surrendered because of the Russian declaration of war and invasion of Manchuria on August 8, 1945. Just because many people have believed the A-Bomb myth for 70 years doesn't make it true. This is not a speculative assessment; the minutes of the Japanese Supreme War Direction Council reveal this.

Thank you Eric... I did not know that.....you can learn something every day on here.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Thank you Eric... I did not know that.....you can learn something every day on here.

Me neither cheers eric, i think it would still be very convenient to nuke em though.

[Eric]

Originally Posted by cashman

Me neither cheers eric, i think it would still be very convenient to nuke em though.

Not a big fan of the idea of tossing nukes around. But there again, I'm no fan of the new way of war. The West seems to have introduced Health and Safety rules to combat, ones that go way beyond the Geneva Convention. Too many "smart" weapons. Seems like the yanks, in particular, want the kind of war in which nobody gets killed apart from enemy combatants. Nice idea. Pimple-faced geeky kids with thousands of hours practice on their Playstations, sitting underground in Nevada, controlling massively expensive drones ... if only, eh.

By the way, before some of you believe that I'm, as Republican candidates would put it, "soft on terrorism", I firmly believe that Islam is a blight on the planet and should be eradicated, or at least toned down to CofE levels. Still don't like nukes; but there are stocks of napalm around, and conventional HE bombs are cheap and easy to make. One thing the "allies" (that would be the yanks and all those willing to kiss yankee ass) have, and I can't see them losing it, is control of the air. As the USAF demonstrated in the firebombing Tokyo on March 9, 1945 all that is necessary is control of the air and lots of cheap, easily manufactured ordnance. There was some collateral damage as the 750,000 inhabitants of the ****amachi district found out.

While I'm on this extensive rant, here's something else I don't like: the phrase "boots on the ground." Helps us ignore that fact that these "boots" are worn by brave young men and women putting their lives on the line, doesn't it. If it were just a case of boots, I would be all for it. I've some old boots that I would gladly donate to the cause. There are lots of boots, already filled, out there fighting ISIS. Many of these are being worn by Kurds, and an increasingly effective Iraqi Army. Canada, by the way, has commited more money and advisors to help train and equip these boots. I think that this will be more effective than 6 CF-18s which more often than not return from sorties without having dropped a single bomb. Health and Safety regulations again.

All the high-tech toys that Western militaries own have not changed what is needed to achieve victory. According to Liddell-Hart, perhaps the most intelligent strategic thinker of the 20th Century, infantry must take ground and hold it. Maybe there has to be a warm fuzzy "hearts and minds" campaign too. But one the few intelligent things that Richard Nixon said was: "When you have them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow."

[Margaret Pilkington]

It goes without saying that the 'boots on the ground' are filled with the feet of brave men and women...it was ever thus.
Their efforts to keep these spineless cowardly followers of ISIS cannot be praised too highly....but these boots on the ground should be fellow muslims taking back what is rightfully their land(this stops the cries of 'Western Aggression'...so the Iraqi Army and the Kurds are to applauded for their actions......more power to their elbow.

As I said in a previous post, it takes muslim minds to understand what is going on in muslim minds.