Go away Moss

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Neil

Instead of moaning about this work that other people have given up their own time to make happen why not get involved with the decision making process yourselves?

As usual very few want to help until the end and then many pop out of the woodwork to say it's all been done wrong.

Why is it wrong to expect Councillors to have sense?

[Margaret Pilkington]

Neil, do you really think we could have any influence whatsoever?

I am in town most days on some errand or another and I never saw anything about this ill thought out development.
Yes, people have spent their time getting the funding and I know that this is a tortuous process, but who are these people who think this development is good value for money?
Do they really understand and appreciate the deep rooted problems of the town centre?
My feeling would be that they don't.
I can see no rhyme nor reason is spending 3million pounds of lottery money on something like this.
It would be far better spent elsewhere....just because we aren't actually paying for it out of our taxes doesn't mean it is a worthwhile project.
Some folk will have anything if they think they are getting it for nowt.
I have spent all of my working life serving my community and yes it is sometimes a thankless task, but to canvass the opinion of so few people and then to imply that the majority of folk in Accrington want this development is underhand.

There is absolutely no point in doing all this window dressing when the town has been allowed to deteriorate so badly.

When Ken Moss used to come on here he used to portray Accrington as a good place to visit, to do your shopping. He could not see the glaring problems because his rose tinted specs did not permit that view.

Accrington might not be the bumhole of the world, by by gum you can smell it from here...and all our councillors want to do is fiddle about making a useless town square.

The lights are on, but there's nobody at home with an ounce of an idea on how to rejuvenate the town.

These are just my opinions.As this is a public forum I think it is appropriate to air them here.
Not that anyone will take a jot of notice. They (the ones who have these hare brained ideas) do not want our thoughts or our opinions and even less our ideas. They want us to shut up and be grateful...that's not me!

[Neil]

Originally Posted by cashman

Why is it wrong to expect Councillors to have sense?

It's not just councillors/officers making the decisions, you could have been involved as well

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Neil

It's not just councillors/officers making the decisions, you could have been involved as well

That is something i may well have took part in, but not being "Kreskin" knew sod all about it.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Neil, do you really think we could have any influence whatsoever?

I am in town most days on some errand or another and I never saw anything about this ill thought out development.
Yes, people have spent their time getting the funding and I know that this is a tortuous process, but who are these people who think this development is good value for money?
Do they really understand and appreciate the deep rooted problems of the town centre?
My feeling would be that they don't.
I can see no rhyme nor reason is spending 3million pounds of lottery money on something like this.
It would be far better spent elsewhere....just because we aren't actually paying for it out of our taxes doesn't mean it is a worthwhile project.
Some folk will have anything if they think they are getting it for nowt.
I have spent all of my working life serving my community and yes it is sometimes a thankless task, but to canvass the opinion of so few people and then to imply that the majority of folk in Accrington want this development is underhand.

There is absolutely no point in doing all this window dressing when the town has been allowed to deteriorate so badly.

When Ken Moss used to come on here he used to portray Accrington as a good place to visit, to do your shopping. He could not see the glaring problems because his rose tinted specs did not permit that view.

Accrington might not be the bumhole of the world, by by gum you can smell it from here...and all our councillors want to do is fiddle about making a useless town square.

The lights are on, but there's nobody at home with an ounce of an idea on how to rejuvenate the town.

These are just my opinions.As this is a public forum I think it is appropriate to air them here.
Not that anyone will take a jot of notice. They (the ones who have these hare brained ideas) do not want our thoughts or our opinions and even less our ideas. They want us to shut up and be grateful...that's not me!

Yes I do think local residents can have an influence or I wouldn't have been volunteering my time for almost 12 years. You have to be involved with the group to influence it's decision making process. Too many people are happy to let someone else do it all then complain afterwards they weren't consulted. Many people actively avoid being consulted and run a mile when they see someone with a clipboard asking questions.

One thing I find interesting about these sorts of things is that only those against actively speak out. Those that like the idea tend to say nothing and just wait for it to happen. Hyndburn has lost out on a few good projects because of a few complainers and a weak council at dealing with them.

[Margaret Pilkington]

I would like to know how?
And if it would make one jot of difference?
I have been in meetings where ludicrous proposals have been put forward. Those gathered would say nothing until they came out of the meeting and the lambast the proposals.
When asked why they hadn't said their piece in the meeting it was because they wanted to take the line of least resistance...they didn't want to 'rock the boat'. They would rather deal with being landed with something unfit for purpose than open their mouth and say something.

I wonder how much of this goes on in council business?
I think I am just saying what quite a lot of the residents are thinking, but if this is not the case, then I am sure they will come along and put me straight.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Neil,I know that you have done sterling work within the community for a long time.
Such work needs continuity and commitment...this is something I can no longer give(due to family commitments).
I think if people thought it was a good idea, something which would improve the town in a practical way, then we would be hearing more about it on here.
I do not recall any of this development being publicised...shouted about, so that people could get involved and give their views.

It is no good spending this sort of cash on something when the town needs other things to get it up off its knees.

The market could be promoted more. The empty stalls should be let out...at a loss if there are no takers. After all the empty stalls are generating zero revenue....so let them out for nothing. Make the market less like a ghost market, get some footfall. Get the bus companies to have drop off points in the centre of town to bring folk nearer the market.
There are things that could be done, but clearly they aren't and with every dismal market day that passes people stop coming, because there is NOTHING to come for.
A town square, no matter how delightful,will not do it.
Get someone who is really interested in getting the town up on its feet...not the artsy fartsy consultants who couldn't give a flying fig about the town as long as they get the nice fat consultancy fee for the sweet drawings of how the town might look.

[cashman]

I also have been to many meetings when younger and have spent most of my working life helping people at work also. also what Margaret P has just stated is perfectly correct in my experience, also i am at the stage of life where in the main i have better things to do, But i certainly refuse to shut me gob, to humour you Neil. if i agree with summat like yer tree in the park i will say so and i did, these trees i disagree strongly i will also say so, its called my opinion,

[Margaret Pilkington]

Cashy I would love to be able to devote my time to something like this. It would be a cakewalk rather than dealing with what I have on my plate right now.
That said, I believe that these decisions are arrived at regardless of the opinions of local folk.
It will be rubber stamped and we will get it whether we like it or not.
The suggestion that the trees spoil the view of the market hall is too daft to laugh at.
Who goes to LOOK at a market hall.
Well, pretty soon no one will bother to come to Accrington for anything...and the shiny bus station will just ferry folk away.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

I would like to know how?
And if it would make one jot of difference?
I have been in meetings where ludicrous proposals have been put forward. Those gathered would say nothing until they came out of the meeting and the lambast the proposals.
When asked why they hadn't said their piece in the meeting it was because they wanted to take the line of least resistance...they didn't want to 'rock the boat'. They would rather deal with being landed with something unfit for purpose than open their mouth and say something.

I wonder how much of this goes on in council business?
I think I am just saying what quite a lot of the residents are thinking, but if this is not the case, then I am sure they will come along and put me straight.

If someone goes to a meeting and does not say they disagree with something and vote against it then by default they agree with it.

A lot of it will depend on who is making the application. I've withdrawn a successfully secured funding application loosing the Council almost £50,000 because we could not come to an agreement with the council over a lease.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

It is no good spending this sort of cash on something when the town needs other things to get it up off its knees.

The problem is what does the town need that will cause improvements.

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

The market could be promoted more. The empty stalls should be let out...at a loss if there are no takers. After all the empty stalls are generating zero revenue....so let them out for nothing. Make the market less like a ghost market, get some footfall.

I don't agree with letting them free when other traders have to pay. The council are struggling for money and cutting services everywhere. Maybe it's time to let the outside market close and concentrate on the indoor market.

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

A town square, no matter how delightful,will not do it.
Get someone who is really interested in getting the town up on its feet...not the artsy fartsy consultants who couldn't give a flying fig about the town as long as they get the nice fat consultancy fee for the sweet drawings of how the town might look.

I don't believe £3 million is just doing a town square, that is part of the project but is the only part getting attention due to a few trees. Consultants take their direction from those commissioning them to do the job, they don't just dream up the ideas themselves

[Margaret Pilkington]

Neil, the market is dire. Many stalls are empty. This means that the stalls that are being used are paying over the odds because folk don't come...so those who are occupying stalls get less footfall. There is certainly no longer any 'passing' trade.
It might not seem fair to have some stalls occupied by non payers, but at least it would generate some interest,by that token it would generate more trade for the current traders.

Whatever the cost of the town square, it will not create the environment to bring people into town...so if it was only costing half of that price it still would not be worth it.

As for the question of what does the town need to create improvement?
Well, it needs something that will bring people into town...whether that be for a shopping experience or something else. It appears that there is very little appetite to do anything other than this window dressing...a bit like putting pictures on the glass fronts of empty shops to make it look like they aren't empty...it is a futile exercise.
One which we will pay for in the long run.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Oh yes, and I know how consultancy things work...but if those who are commissioning a project don't know their arm from an elephant( I have cleaned that up...but you get the gist) then there really isn't much hope.
I don't believe those who commissioned this project have a clue what the town needs.

[Margaret Pilkington]

I would imagine quite a bit of the money will go on statuary. After all bronze sculptures are not cheap... This is like putting fairy lights up when you have no glass in the windows...like I said artsy fartsy.

[Retlaw]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

The market could be promoted more. The empty stalls should be let out...at a loss if there are no takers. After all the empty stalls are generating zero revenue....so let them out for nothing. Make the market less like a ghost market, get some footfall. Get the bus companies to have drop off points in the centre of town to bring folk nearer the market.

Ay eck Margaret it's a vicious circle, the market traders are leaving because they don't have the custom they used to have, rents have gone up, the cost of utilities, leckky an the like are out of all proportion, an they have to sell hell a lot more these days before they are puttin butter on their own bread, peoples shopping habits have changed, now instead of going in 1/2 doz shops for next weeks dinners, go in Arsda or Tosco do every thing at once pud id int boot ot car, and home to switch tele on, I might be good at Bury an the like, they have a bigger catchment area than Accy.
Folks round here now like easy shoppin, thurs ony the likes of us owdies who like things as they were, when we've gone nobody ul give a monkeys about stalls in Accy Market, probably be a museum in 10 or so years. But there is one thing, the project on the Accy Pals might just fetch a good few folk into Accy to have a look, and while their at it bob int market an buy sumat.