Grand National, is it wrong?

[susie123]

Another interesting read

Equine Science and Welfare: Injuries and Fatalities

[cashman]

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany

Sorry lads but I've got to disagree with your views here, the reason some of the horses continued to jump was because they are herd animals, their natural reaction is to run alongside others of their kind, banded together gives a sense of support & security. Flight or fight, it's a self preservation instinct, the vast herds of Mustang in the States or the Brumbies of Australia certainly don't jump obstacles if they can be avoided.

Not all of the horses who were riderless jumped, some went round the outside of the hurdles taking the path of least resistance, others physically baulked at the obstacles obviously the more timid or sensible of the herd chose that option. In retrospect the reaction by Synchronised upon seeing the fence when he ran free proves this point emphatically ! He did not want to jump.

Furthermore, theses animals had no choice in taking part in the event, it was their owners who decided they should run. And as to the sporting personalities you raise as counter argument, they chose their sport for its rewards & acclaim, they made a conscious choice to take that risk, the horse didn't have the luxury of that option. It has ever been so with us Humans in regard to the lesser species, we misuse their trust & faith in us for our benefit & oft times greed.

O.K. fair enough, i don't back horses, But lets Ban everything thats a bit dodgy n live like cabbages.

[DaveinGermany]

Originally Posted by cashman

O.K. fair enough, i don't back horses, But lets Ban everything thats a bit dodgy n live like cabbages.

Cashy, I haven't said anything should be banned. Wherever there is a lucrative opening for money to be made, irrespective of how dangerous or risky an endeavour may be there will always be people willing to take that risk.

My objection if it is seen as such, is with the inclusion of an innocent third party (Human or Animal) unable to choose their own course & have it enforced on them. This particular bone of contention goes beyond the boundaries of purely animals in sport.

[kestrelx]

Originally Posted by lindsay ormerod

Wouldn't expect anything more from you really, I start a sensible thread that most people would have an opinion on , it's likely that there will be serious questions asked about the course and the fitness/ mental attitude of Synchronised.
Can you not , just for once, make some sensible comment and stop ruining a potentially interesting thread with your banal comments?

I agree with your post totally Less should live up to his moniker and post Less! Like Cashman and Jaysay (group name the 3 Stooges) all are guilty of the same crime!

[kestrelx]

Originally Posted by MargaretR

Any 'sport' with a high death rate is barbaric.
It seems like we haven't evolved from the days of the Roman empire, when death spectacles were provided to keep the primitive masses 'diverted' and amused.

So right! I don't gamble and I'm not into horse racing either. Don't horses keep jumping because they are a herd animal and if they are in a group running and jumping they will carry on even when the rider has fallen off. Also some animal expert said that horses only run like that when they are afraid so if that is true, then at every horse race the beasts are running because they are afraid...

[cashman]

Originally Posted by kestrelx

I agree with your post totally Less should live up to his moniker and post Less! Like Cashman and Jaysay (group name the 3 Stooges) all are guilty of the same crime!

And you are not? Are yeh a Dingle or what? I'm beginning to strongly suspect yeh are.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Cashy, treat is as a compliment...didn't loads of folk go to the flicks and laugh long and hard at the antics of these guys?....And didn't these guys laugh all the way to the bank with lolly they earned from giving the working folk some light relief?

[Less]

Originally Posted by lindsay ormerod

You Sir , are one of reasons I don't bother with the site anymore , and thank you for your concern, I am fit , well, and mentally sound. (unlike you)

There you go, all this venom on your behalf!
Look at me, usually I'm giving grief to folk that want to call AccyWeb, so rather than help, you would rather say I'm a problem, well kissy, kissy, I seem to spend most of my time just explaining to folk like you, the site is fine, those of us that give up on it make it harder for those that stay, all seem to come back, with their own moan, how can they do that?
Well, because the ones they call, are keeping it open.

[Less]

Originally Posted by lindsay ormerod

You Sir , are one of reasons I don't bother with the site anymore , and thank you for your concern, I am fit , well, and mentally sound. (unlike you)

Well, rather than stop posting tell me and others where we are going wrong, rather than every time you post it's a negative, look at your posts, then consider...
I'm on every day, trying to keep the site open for you to call me.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by cashman

And you are not? Are yeh a Dingle or what? I'm beginning to strongly suspect yeh are.

Come on Cashy even dingles don't deserve being tagged with that plank

[Gordon Booth]

I just wonder- if there weren't so many horses starting off, forty, they wouldn't get in each others way so much. In that crowd some of them won't even see the fences before they come to them. How can they jump properly if they can't see the fence? Also they and the jockeys have no room to manoeuvre or react if one in front of them has a problem.
After all the new fences aren't that high and if horses died every time there was a foxhunt we'd surely hear about it. But on a foxhunt they'll be spread out.

[kestrelx]

Originally Posted by lindsay ormerod

You Sir , are one of reasons I don't bother with the site anymore , and thank you for your concern, I am fit , well, and mentally sound. (unlike you)

See this thread has degraded into personal insults on behalf of the 3 regulars who seem to frequent nearly every thread - Less, Jaysay and Cashman. The thread topic gets side-tracked and personal insults and attacks are used.

Grand National should reduce the size of the fences so that horses don't get killed!

[Neil]

Originally Posted by cashman

Thats what i find a bit ironic!! Not many start threads about these things, Yet when a couple of horses sadly die ........well.

It is because the National is hyped into such a bit event and the deaths of the horses had a lot of tv coverage.

Its like the footballer who had a hear attack on the field and everyone was wishing him well. 124,000 people have heart attacks every year but that one had a lot of tv coverage so most people knew about that one heart attack.

[***Mr D***]

Originally Posted by Neil

It is because the National is hyped into such a bit event and the deaths of the horses had a lot of tv coverage.

Its like the footballer who had a hear attack on the field and everyone was wishing him well. 124,000 people have heart attacks every year but that one had a lot of tv coverage so most people knew about that one heart attack.

This is a good point, its like when somebody gets stabbed and it makes the news, you will see stabbings in the news for about a week, then it goes, but people are still being stabbed daily.

I don't like the fact animals have to be killed, but I agree there are lots worse things happening daily.

[racerlass]

hi all. im not normally on here but thought id join purely to give my point of view as i work for a very sucessfull trainer. i was also present on sat as we had horses there. what happened to the boys was just awful. nobody likes seeing a horse injured fatally and those of us who work with and look after them are always devastated when something horrible happens. believe me there is nothing worse than returning baxk to the yard without the boy or girl you look after on a daily basis. alot has been made about synchronised ''throwing'' tony and ''bolting'' off. first of all he did not throw him, he simply shyed, moved a quick step to the side and dropped his shoulder. this happens to riders all over on a daily basis. a horse shying is the same as something making you jump. its an involuntary movement. sync than decided to go for a little outing. he didnt bolt off, bolting is galloping flat out normally in a panic. he simply went for a canter. he didnt appear to be distressed. he was on his toes and having a look round on his way back up, most ,likely wondering where his friends had dissappeard too! racehorse are always ridden out in strings together. they dont like being alone. so when he was backing off the fence when tony was trying to show it to him it was a simple case of him wanting to get back to the group. my personal opinion is that he shouldnt have been entered. he had won the gold cup a month earlier. i believe he should have been left until next season. i find it very upsetting that some people believe all aspects of racing are bad. i cant make excuses for what happened on sat but i can assure you they love what they do, they are not in anyway abused, they want for nothing and they recieve top quality care from everyone involved from us lads and lasses right throught to massage people and vets. i dont believe lowering the fences would be a good idea. bechers has been lowered and i actually believe it has caused more problems as now ather than spreading out across the whole fence evryone was trying to jump it on the inside which im sure contributed to pete being brought down by another horse. my personal opinion is the main thing that needs changing is the size of the field. ive looked i to satistics and even a 5 horse reduction would appear to make a much safer race. i hope i have cleared up a few things regarding the start of the race for you and i hope tyou will also believe me when i say everyone involved with these horses loves them very much, right from the rich owners to us lads and lasses