Grangemouth

Guinness · 25-10-2013, 20:41

How do you guys see this?

I really don't know what to think here. So many variables.

A scandal ridden union in disarray with unreasonable demands?

An intransigent boss determined to have his way?

Cheap imports undercutting the company forcing it to come up with a rescue plan setting worker rights back 20 years?

Alex Salmond soundbites claiming a victory for Scotland?

The UK promising to underwrite a £125 million investment even if Scotland gets home rule?

Personally I'm kinda falling into the boss camp, which sticks in my craw somewhat.

My current view on it...Muppet union jobsworth reps, with ridiculous expectations pushing their members into an untenable position. Union bosses have become exactly the same as their political counterparts....

i.e. in it for themselves

cashman · 25-10-2013, 20:55

I see it as a no-win situation fer the workers, its as simple as that. unions to me have every right to try to protect pensions n cost of living etc, owners have every right to protect the business they own, if it was industrial blackmail i do not know?? The only good thing is they still got jobs,in this day n age thats gotta be summat.

Guinness · 25-10-2013, 21:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman

I see it as a no-win situation fer the workers, its as simple as that. unions to me have every right to try to protect pensions n cost of living etc, owners have every right to protect the business they own, if it was industrial blackmail i do not know?? The only good thing is they still got jobs,in this day n age thats gotta be summat.

Totally agree that at the least they have jobs....but if the union had given a little in the original negotiations maybe the workforce would have a better deal.
As it is now..they are screwed and at the mercy of the company..they have no negotiating power, they have signed away their right to strike for 3 years, they are scared for their jobs..it's not just a management win its a management walkover.

Those guys may as well stop paying their union subs and put what they save into a bank for the interest.

egg&chips · 25-10-2013, 21:29

A sad tale. I feel very sorry for workers having to take a pay cut and a pension deduction and do not have much sympathy for the "multi-millionaire" head of t he company. Having said that, I acknowledge that my feelings may well be subject to a certain amount of media manipulation. I suspect that neither side (unions nor management)come out of this with un besmirched characters.

cashman · 25-10-2013, 21:31

Ifs n Maybes, are yeh aware that it wasn't just Industrial Blackmail? cos i have no idea one way or the other.

maybe it was n intransigent union. maybe it was the other?? Only those in any conflict know the real truth, in my experience.

Guinness · 25-10-2013, 21:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman

Ifs n Maybes, are yeh aware that it wasn't just Industrial Blackmail? cos i have no idea one way or the other.

maybe it was n intransigent union. maybe it was the other?? Only those in any conflict know the real truth, in my experience.

Which is exactly why I said in my first post that I really don't know what to think..unfortunately the only losers here are the guys that turn the spanners and screwdrivers..the briefcase laden union reps and managers just move on to the next crisis

shillelagh · 25-10-2013, 22:00

INEOS have got what they wanted ... no full time union representatives in the refinery or the petrochemical plant ..

Spugster lives not far from there .. and he said he was more sorry for the subbies rather than the ones who worked for ineos. He said they were told that they needed to make cutbacks .. like everyone else but they wouldn't except em ..they wouldn't to carry on on their £50,000 a year .. ineos warned what would happen .. they knew .. and so kicked everyone out of the job .. in fact the union walked right into the trap ineos set for em ... oh im sick and fed up of it all now .....

Guinness · 25-10-2013, 22:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by shillelagh

INEOS have got what they wanted ... no full time union representatives in the refinery or the petrochemical plant ..

Spugster lives not far from there .. and he said he was more sorry for the subbies rather than the ones who worked for ineos. He said they were told that they needed to make cutbacks .. like everyone else but they wouldn't except em ..they wouldn't to carry on on their £50,000 a year .. ineos warned what would happen .. they knew .. and so kicked everyone out of the job .. in fact the union walked right into the trap ineos set for em ... oh im sick and fed up of it all now .....

Q.E.D. Todays union reps are no different than politicians....in it for themselves and sod the plebs

Barrie Yates · 26-10-2013, 09:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guinness

Q.E.D. Todays union reps are no different than politicians....in it for themselves and sod the plebs

When a Union calls everyone out on strike do the officials also go without their pay?

cashman · 26-10-2013, 09:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barrie Yates

When a Union calls everyone out on strike do the officials also go without their pay?

Since when have unions been able to call anyone out on strike? Thats a new un on me, The bitch that recently died put a stop to that practice, or have thing changed? cos thats new to me if so.

DtheP47 · 26-10-2013, 12:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barrie Yates

When a Union calls everyone out on strike do the officials also go without their pay?

The full time officials most certainly get paid, the local shop stewards at the plant would not be paid.

cashman · 26-10-2013, 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by DtheP47

The full time officials most certainly get paid, the local shop stewards at the plant would not be paid.

True but the unions can't call anyone out these days.

egg&chips · 26-10-2013, 18:00

As much as anything, I think that this whole sorry affair is an indicator that the economy is by no means out of the woods yet. When any environment, is under stress, it's occupants tend towards conflict due to desperation and a desire to maintain their own well-being. Unashamedly mixing my metaphors, I suspect that the light at the end of the tunnel recently alluded to by Plastic#2 (Mr Osborne) is not the exit from current darkness, but an express train about to squish those unable to get out of the way.

Guinness · 26-10-2013, 23:30

So looking around..it seems that a reasonable offer was on the table..no pay rises or bonuses for 3 years, reduction in extra pay for weekends and nights, pensions changed from final salary to what you actually put in..and no job losses! Current employees get an enhanced employer contribution to pensions and a lump sum of around £15k.

660ish of the 1350 workforce rejected the offer..which means around 700 agreed to it.

Yet briefcase union reps dug their heels in.

I'm at a loss here....

We'll guarantee your job if... you fall into line with the pay and conditions of doctors, nurses, policemen, firemen, care workers, plumbers etc..ad infinitum..or we will have to close the plant!

The majority see sense..

The union doesn't.... they only have 1000 or so members and see the figure of 660 as a majority, ignoring the 350 or so who aren't in the union as inconsequents, and tell management to get stuffed.

Result...no pay rises or bonuses for 3 years, reduction in extra pay for weekends and nights, pensions changed from final salary to what you actually put in..and probable job losses which will be kept to a minimum

cmonstanley · 27-10-2013, 00:34

the union actually called off the strike . the management done the shutdown

this was political as we will find out. the government scottish or uk gave the company an incentive to stay open. no union can shut down a factory now , only its members can if they dont turn up on the day.