Greater Accrington Heroes. - Page 2

Rowlf · 31-10-2016, 19:02

May I add my congratulations and admiration for the mammoth task you have completed Walter. You have done those heroes proud. Well done.

Atarah · 31-10-2016, 19:14

Golly gosh my mate. You kept that quiet :-)

Gordon Booth · 31-10-2016, 19:49

Walter, I'm so glad you've decided to put all those years of work in print.
Now it will never be lost and no-one else can ever claim it for their own- you have claimed it in print!

Margaret Pilkington · 31-10-2016, 21:10

Which means those brave lads will be remembered for their deeds and you will be remembered for your perseverance,patience and making it possible for those who came after to trace their menfolk.

Retlaw · 31-10-2016, 23:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atarah

Golly gosh my mate. You kept that quiet :-)

Wotch yer meen you daft barmcake, wods ti think ave bin doin all these yeers, thas sin me oft enuf int libry, an thas sin thi Uncle Harry int tother books. Ee eck Lizzie av gin up on thee.

RainbowSix · 01-11-2016, 13:47

If you have it in print and have typed it in via your older PC then its in an electronic format already.

However your reticent to take it that step further and publish it online which I can see you have good reasons for.

What are you planning on doing with this information now? Are these books going to be available for purchase? for view at any exhibitions?
What about the accringtons past thing in the arndale?
The Pals display in the town hall?

It would be a shame if after all that hard work you did not either profit from it by selling some (I suspect that was not your intention) or let others know of it all.

Still your choice.

Retlaw · 01-11-2016, 14:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainbowSix

If you have it in print and have typed it in via your older PC then its in an electronic format already.

However your reticent to take it that step further and publish it online which I can see you have good reasons for.

What are you planning on doing with this information now? Are these books going to be available for purchase? for view at any exhibitions?
What about the accringtons past thing in the arndale?
The Pals display in the town hall?

It would be a shame if after all that hard work you did not either profit from it by selling some (I suspect that was not your intention) or let others know of it all.

Still your choice.

Hi Rainbow, theres a long history behind the saga of Bill Turners work, most of the original display in the clown hall, came from Bill lending them things from his collection, and them either copying it or keeping it, and then it appears on web sites by courtesy of H.B.C,
(H.B.C. Had completely ingnored any reference to the Pals after the 50th Aniversay.)
They did the same to me. I created a time line of the Pal for Bills 2006 exhibition at the Haworth, comparing what they we doing thro out the war, with other events taking place, walking thro the market one day just after its refurbishment, and there was my time line on board in one of the empty stalls, I blew my top, because I'd copyrighted it to Bill, they took it down. They don't have a copy of the Pals Casualty Book July 1st 1916, when my daughters took them to France they were under strict orders not to let any one see them, if they had those books would have been like oily rags wi thumb prints an wet finger marks of page turners, the only person who was allowed a preview was an old work mate of mine who lives in France, and is my eldests God father, she said there were tears in his eyes when he was looking at them, and was very reluctant to hand it back.

I wouldn't trust that lot int clown hall with used toilet paper, individually they appear to be nice people, but collectively, nuff said.

My copy of the 1916 disaster, and the other books the Greater Accrington Heroes, are printed on a special paper that the government uses to prevent photo copying, and its not cheap over £30 a ream, so if any one nicks my books they can't do owt with them.
Please don't go an say for the people of Accrington, I spent nigh on 30 years at the Fire Station, and ruined my health for the people of Accrington, they've had enough out of me.

RainbowSix · 01-11-2016, 15:18

If your not going to share this wonderful tome of informations, can I ask what you are planning on doing with them then?

Retlaw · 01-11-2016, 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainbowSix

If your not going to share this wonderful tome of informations, can I ask what you are planning on doing with them then?

Hopefully my grdandson will be old enough to appreciate them when I pop my clogs, only on the under standing that he never lends them to any one, best friend become lost friends when they borrow, and never return things, or even deny ever havng them, I've had some of that in the past. And all that has made me a right cynical owd bastard.

hear all see all say nowt,
Sup all eyt all pay nowt,
an if tha ever does owt fur nowt
do id fur thi sen.
Id may be a Yorkshire sayin
bud ids a gudun

Margaret Pilkington · 01-11-2016, 21:36

I hope that your grandson realises the trust you have invested in him, and that he follows your wishes, but the truth is, after you are gone you can do nothing and will not care.
If the books are copyrighted then they are yours even if they are held by someone else. It remains your intellectual property and no one else can put their name to it

Retlaw · 01-11-2016, 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

I hope that your grandson realises the trust you have invested in him, and that he follows your wishes, but the truth is, after you are gone you can do nothing and will not care.
If the books are copyrighted then they are yours even if they are held by someone else. It remains your intellectual property and no one else can put their name to it

Aye Margaret appen your right, but Alison will keep an eye on him.
Copy right on books these days is very hard to prove, as to where the robber got it from, you get a reminder of it in practically every book you buy, or borrow from the library, but that doesn't stop folk photo copying what they want, without thought of all the hours authors have put in creating the work, I've never heard of a case going to court, an it could be dammed expensive if you lose.

Margaret Pilkington · 01-11-2016, 22:50

Well, I am not sure about your concern regarding copyright of intellectual property.
There have been recent big court cases with regards to who wrote what song(and yes, I know it isn't quite the same....but it is still written work) with those found guilty being made to pay eye watering damages.
I know that isn't really your concern, but it just seems a shame if the work you have done cannot be accessed in a controlled way.
There must be some organisation out there that would be trustworthy in ensuring that your work was available to view, but without the possibility of it being stolen or mistreated.

RainbowSix · 02-11-2016, 10:30

I agree, there are ways to prevent the IP theft AND share the information with the rest of the people who lost family etc.

I am sure that there are many who are trying to trace their family history that would be very keen on this information. You could even license it perhaps to the ancestry organisations or the National Archives etc.

I note that there is already a lot of information at http://www.pals.org.uk/

Morecambe Ex Pat · 02-11-2016, 19:31

We have been researching our family history for quite some time and archived information has been the only way we have been able to piece it together. I appreciate that you do not want to publish all of your research but there is a lot of inaccurate information out there. Not correcting the inaccuracies will simply lead to people, who are researching in the future, quoting the wrong information which will get further corrupted if there is no definitive work, such as yours, which contains the correct painstakingly researched truth. Now your research is in book form, the custodians of the work can easily direct anyone claiming the research as their own, to your published work.

Retlaw · 02-11-2016, 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainbowSix

I agree, there are ways to prevent the IP theft AND share the information with the rest of the people who lost family etc.

I am sure that there are many who are trying to trace their family history that would be very keen on this information. You could even license it perhaps to the ancestry organisations or the National Archives etc.

I note that there is already a lot of information at The Accrington Pals

Rainbow. That web site you quoted, don't make me laugh, there are dozens of errors in it, where do you think all that info came from.
Have you ever read Bill Turners works on the Accrington Pals, a work of that magintude could only have been done by some one who is retired with over 3 years of researching up and down the country hours and hours of writing and typing, no computer, Bill didn't like them.
Starting at page 212 is a list of names & service numbers for the 11th supplied by Fergus Read, when Bill gave me a copy of his book, I indexed all those numbers in a database, & didn't like what I saw, so Bill & I spent every Thursday at Fulwood in 1990 going thro the 35mm films of the East Lancs records which had just become available, we found 41 had never served in the 11th E.L. 67 had been missed, several men with two entries on differnt pages who had been renumbered, after a stay in hospital and were retrained,.
Bill & I met up with Fergus again, and Fergus gave me his original notes, which I still have in a folder.
The owner of that web site will not answer my question where did he get his numbers from, when at that time only those 2 sources were available there are a heck of a lot of original Pals missing, several who never served with them.
Starting in 1999 Bill and I started going down to Kew Record office again spending several days at a time twice a year till 2003, going thro records & other documents looking for more info on the Pals.
Since Bill died my research has found a further 527 men who served in the 11th, and whilst on Ancestry I down loaded over 1000 sets of service records & practically all there Medal Cards, which I am now sorting, cleaniing up and printing on them, who they were and how long they served with the 11th, and the state they are in on Ancestry, means I've got at least another 12 months work ahead before they are finished.
Before Bill died we signed a document with the library staff, in which al Bills collection would be kept under lock an key, only two people to have keys, the head librarian & Me, along with a list of those to be denied access, only the librarian knows where their keys are kept, so the temp staff on duty can't be conned into openin Bills & my cabinets, and if the library is to close those cabinets will be coming here, if I've turned my toes up my youngsest says she will take them.