Greater Accrington Heroes.

[Morecambe Ex Pat]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

I can understand entirely that Walter has been let down before.
It is entirely up to him what he chooses to do with this information, but like others I feel that it is a shame that people who want to know if their grandad or uncle was among these brave lads may have a fruitless search. They may be led astray by the misinformation that Walter tells us is out there masquerading as fact. They may never get the truth.
There must be some way to allow access to the information, while keeping the research safe.
In the end there is only one person who can decide right now. That is Walter.

Margaret, protecting copyright of non fiction work is very difficult as such work is usually a compilation of information from numerous sources which themselves will have some claim to copyright.

[Margaret Pilkington]

I can understand and appreciate that, (I think that if you are publishing factual research, it is generally accepted that any resources used are mentioned and the authors of such research have their input recognised by attribution. I am sure if I have got the wrong end of this stick there will be someone along in a minute to rectify my ignorance)but it still seems a shame that there is no one the Walter trusts enough to be a caretaker of this research when he is no longer able to do it himself.

I know he is going to trust family members, but the further down the line you go the less it will really mean to them, as they didn't put the britches ar$e steam into the foot slogging work that this research has entailed.
Anyone who has done any research of any description knows that is a lot of sifting the wheat from the chaff and Walter has done that with the advantage of a lot of background knowledge.

[Margaret Pilkington]

If it were my work, I would want to share it.
Allow others who have an interest to access the information. (As Walter has said this information is only of interest to a very small group of people. Which is why his books are not a commercial print proposition)If they wanted to reproducece it then they would have to ask for permission and attribute the information to my research.

Walter has made his decision and that is how he wants it to be.
That has to be respected, whatever any of us think.

[Retlaw]

Most of my sources, all the ones beging with WO3 are down at Kew, hours an hours sat searching, some of the names seemed to jump ot of the page at me, appen it was because me nut wer full o nowt but names an numbers. I can't see many being cvered by copy right, and as for the ones at Kew the are not theirs, they are just supposed to bve looking after them. Public Record Offices

[Margaret Pilkington]

Walter, I really don't know how your patience held out.
It was a labour of love and no mistake.
I did only a little genealogy and it fried my brains and boggled my mind.

[dotti34]

Some time ago Retlaw you gave me information that answered a query for me and made sense of some family research I was doing. I was very grateful and I was most impressed with your knowledge then. I am absolutely blown away now with what you have achieved with your Accrington Pals research. Huge congratulations on a job well done and books printed.

Over the years so many good men and women have fought for their country, far too many paying the supreme sacrifice, but as time goes by they are often forgotten, except by their families. Walter, by devoting your time and effort into this very worthwhile project you have ensured that at least the ones who were the Pals are remembered, that their names will live on in perpetuity in your books.

You have a right to do with it all as you wish of course and on the one hand I can definitely understand your reluctance to give public access to this information knowing what some people with no scruples or morals have done in the past in claiming your work as their own. However, on the other hand I think it is such a shame that the names and information of those gallant Pals should be hidden away again after all the painstaking hours you have spent bringing them to light.

[Eric]

Originally Posted by RainbowSix

So your determined to keep the information all to yourself, sat on a shelf doing no one any good.

OK if that's what you want, if you don't want others to be able to have accurate information and to leave them to the inaccurate info that's on the sites you mention then so be it, totally your choice.

I think it's a shame though.

What a complete crock of horse manure! The implication of your "argument" is that Walter is keeping secrets. He ain't. All the information that you accuse him of hiding is readily available to any member of the public who wishes to read it. If you wish to research a particular aspect of the Pals, or the history of a particular soldier, get your ass down to the library and set to work.

[Retlaw]

Originally Posted by Eric

What a complete crock of horse manure! The implication of your "argument" is that Walter is keeping secrets. He ain't. All the information that you accuse him of hiding is readily available to any member of the public who wishes to read it. If you wish to research a particular aspect of the Pals, or the history of a particular soldier, get your ass down to the library and set to work.

Thanks Eric, thats certainly colouring the rainbow, in a way your correct, but not all the info is in the library, a lot can be found there, name rank & number, to get a picture of their lives, then you wil bve searcingthro every newspaper in the towns and villages that they lived around Acc. Blegburn, Gt Harrud, Whalley, Burnley & Colne, Chorley & district, an if you want more, then ids round an round the public record offices, then again rainbows are only fleeting, & if you read the list of sources, it won't illuminate all of them. But theres another way, if they are after a particular soldier, why not just ask, an if its just for you and family, I'll tell you.
Eric have a slug of your favourite brew on me.

[RainbowSix]

No Eric, you're getting the wrong end of the stick.

For starters it's not an argument, there are several people here pointing out to Walter that now that he has compiled such a great source of corrected information it would be a shame to keep that information secret, hidden from public, private - call it what you will - as has I think been said by others, not letting the relatives of all the the accy heroes have access to corrected information leaves them with the incorrect info.

If we did get down to the library would we get the more accurate information that Walter has? Not according to what Walter has been saying.

So people will still think that their grandpappy was part of something that he wasn't etc.

It's all down to Walters choice, and if he has chosen to not let anyone else know the content unless they ask him (and how are they going to know to do that?) then some of us think it's a shame.

We are not arguing, we are not calling Walter in any way as he has done great work with this, we would just encourage him to reconsider maybe releasing this corrected information at some point so that those that are seeking it can find it.
That's all, no smelly equine stuff involved.

[cashman]

I think eric is 100% correct,and as for how would they know how to ask him, thats ridiculous, i did a few years back on behalf of my missus,and i dont know him, in fact to my best knowledge,we have never met, he went out of his way to help, and this was WW2 which he aint researched like WW1. in fact he found out for us were her uncle was buried in france and even the grave, which enabled us to go oer and pay our respects, so to say how would people know how to contact him is ridiculous.

[Aussie Irene]

Retlaw also gave me information, for which i was truly grateful, of both of my Grandfathers, one of whom i never saw, he was killed when my mother was only three years old.

[RainbowSix]

Cashy,

How is asking how people would know to contact Walter ridiculous?
Would you care to advise how the average relative that is not part of this forum so does not know Walter is supposed to know to contact him?

Searching for the Pals brings up several hits, although some mention Walter the website I mentioned above is more prominent as it the national archives.

It's not ridiculous its just a plain fact that if Walter is not "out there " as the other sites are then he is not going to be the no1 source that he obviously is now.

Some of you are being way too closed minded about this and not thinking outside of the cliche that exists here.

Great job Walter, keep it up.

[cashman]

If they aint members then probably dont know anyway, if not and they are interested they would no doubt ask at the library , they would get info yon, and it is ridiculous not knowing that fact, if yeh were interested in getting info, or is that too much to expect?

[Retlaw]

Any one with any grey matter & with a knowledge of Accrington would contact the Library, or if they've even more grey matter the Haworth or Ossy Mills, which both have displays of Accrington Lads. Some even have the sense to contact the East Lancs museum at Fulwood, all of them will contact me. So where's the problem.
I'm protecting my work from those I know would rip it off with no hesitation, to prop up their own ego's, You are a comparative newcomer to all this, which has been going on for years. Ask your self Why would Bill Turner have all his collection locked away, and a list of those ego trippers not allowed in a file. Even Bill knew them then and he died in 2007.

[Eric]

Originally Posted by RainbowSix

No Eric, you're getting the wrong end of the stick.

For starters it's not an argument, there are several people here pointing out to Walter that now that he has compiled such a great source of corrected information it would be a shame to keep that information secret, hidden from public, private - call it what you will - as has I think been said by others, not letting the relatives of all the the accy heroes have access to corrected information leaves them with the incorrect info.

If we did get down to the library would we get the more accurate information that Walter has? Not according to what Walter has been saying.

So people will still think that their grandpappy was part of something that he wasn't etc.

It's all down to Walters choice, and if he has chosen to not let anyone else know the content unless they ask him (and how are they going to know to do that?) then some of us think it's a shame.

We are not arguing, we are not calling Walter in any way as he has done great work with this, we would just encourage him to reconsider maybe releasing this corrected information at some point so that those that are seeking it can find it.
That's all, no smelly equine stuff involved.

No. I have the right end of the stick. The feces is at the other end.

And it is an "argument." I select my words carefully. Out of the approx. 600, 000 words in this most beautiful language of ours, I came up with this one. And I'll stick with it.

I understand Walter's position because I, myself, have done some serious research I know the work ... most of it boring, some little of it fascinating, even less of it appreciated ... that goes into such a task. The rewards are few ... I got ten useless letters to stick after my name, and a couple more to stick in front of it

Walter owns none of the information he possesses ... it's all in public domain. What he does own ... ok, let's use a cliche ... are the fruits of his labours. What he has assembled is a mine of information. And we have no right to criticize him for standing guard at the adit.

An aside: I remember the bloke in my avatar taking me to Mercer Park one summer afternoon. When I asked him what the angel on the memorial was pointing at, he told me that she was showing the soldier the way to the bog. Now, some may consider that this was showing disrespect for the fallen. Maybe. But he fought at Passchendael. I think this gave him the right to amuse his grandson. He was my hero.