Harsh or Just ? - Page 2

WillowTheWhisp · 12-01-2008, 00:41

I think I agree with you Bonnyboy. I know two people who suffer from sleep apnoea and both of them just suddenly drop off to sleep. They don't doze or behave like other people who feel sleepy and drowsy.One minute they are wide awake and next minute they are snoring. If something suddenly wakens them they are not even aware of how long they have been asleep. One of them used to drive and had an accident, drove into a garden fence and rolled the car over. Until then he wasn't even aware that it happened either. He was fortunate in that no other car was involved and neither he nor his passengers were seriously hurt.

I don't know how long this chap had been up and about and been driving as that isn't clear in the article. The early hour of the morning gives the implication that he had been maybe overdoing it and been driving for too long but it's all relative. Some people get up at 7am, set off for work at 8am and can be driving for several hours - he may not have actually been on the road any longer than that.

However, if he had been driving for a long time and not taken any breaks then that could be taken into account as a contributory factor and most people should have sense to take a break. It's not clear whether he did or not, although he does say he didn't feel sleepy. I think that is often a characteristic of sleep apnoea that the sufferer isn't actually aware of feeling sleepy.

In any case nothing can bring back those whose lives have been lost. If the purpose of the punishment is to prevent the person from doing it again I would say that it's unnecessary because he is hardly likely to ever do it again now that he knows he has such a problem whether he is punished or not. If the idea is to discourage other people from doing the same thing then it's pointless because anyone else in the same situation may well also not know they suffer from this problem and so wouldn't consider it related to them.

WillowTheWhisp · 12-01-2008, 00:43

From the NHS linked site:

Quote:

People affected by sleep apnoea are often unaware of that they have the condition.

Bonnyboy · 12-01-2008, 00:46

Heck Willow, that was a decent post, would give you some karma but apparently I have to spread it around a little more

jambutty · 13-01-2008, 15:24

And now Parliament is discussing the possibility of a driver causing a death on the roads because of a momentary lapse in concentration will only get a community sentence instead of prison.

Or put another way – if you have the money to hire a really smart barrister to plead your ‘momentary lapse’ case you are likely to stay out of prison. Whereas the rest of us without such financial muscle will get slammed in clink.

As for the topic in question. On the face of it, it may seem harsh but there are too many unknowns to make a judgement so I have to accept the learned judge’s decision.

All I can say is that at 61 Ian King must have been aware that as you grow older you change in many ways and one way is that you get tired quicker.

adele84 · 13-01-2008, 15:57

who really gives **** he killed people ****ing lock him up

blazey · 13-01-2008, 19:51

I agree with bonnyboy on this one. People who dont know they have an illness like this wouldn't stay off work even if he had been feeling drowsy during the day time, thats like saying nobody gets tired sometimes during the day.

How long had he been doing the job? Days or years? I also think symptoms are different per person and you cant say he must have had symptoms, one person could be suffering from an erratic sleep pattern whilst another may just feel he needs a nap in the middle of the day or something?

My main problem with this is that how many people go to the doctors every time they feel exhausted? Its hardly a well known illness is it? From my view even a 15 minute break wouldn't have stopped this from happening, and I think he deserved nothing more than a driving ban and a suspended sentence. I'm sure he would have suffered enough trauma and will suffer for the rest of his life with the guilt of what happened. Any one of us on this forum who could drive could have had that happen to them, it was just a tragic accident.

MargaretR · 13-01-2008, 19:57

There are several sleep disorders
Try this test - you may have one of them without realising it.
Knowing = coping, and learning to live with it
Sleep Test

blazey · 13-01-2008, 20:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by [email protected]

There are several sleep disorders
Try this test - you may have one of them without realising it.
Knowing = coping, and learning to live with it
Sleep Test

I show symptoms of 4 and I knew already that i have a problem with insomnia. Shame that the ones it says all clash regarding symptoms. In others words my sleeping patterns are a mess. Guess that comes with studying better at night and just sleeping when I get chance! I went to sleep at 6pm yesterday and got up at 11pm, stayed up til 4, went back to sleep til 10am. I think thats the most sleep ive had in a while though!

I also have symptoms of that one we're discussing. Luckily I dont drive.

blazey · 13-01-2008, 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by blazey

I show symptoms of 4 and I knew already that i have a problem with insomnia. Shame that the ones it says all clash regarding symptoms. In others words my sleeping patterns are a mess. Guess that comes with studying better at night and just sleeping when I get chance! I went to sleep at 6pm yesterday and got up at 11pm, stayed up til 4, went back to sleep til 10am. I think thats the most sleep ive had in a while though!

I also have symptoms of that one we're discussing. Luckily I dont drive.

I'll check back tomorrow to see if anyone else has an unrealistic amount of ailments. thats the problems with these types of questionnaires, they produce hypochondriacs and some are actually developed intentionally to make some people worry I think.

Imagine how I'm going to sleep tonight with the knowledge I potentially suffer from 4 of the 9 possible problems.

MargaretR · 13-01-2008, 20:41

A sleep disorder can only be correctly diagnosed by tests at a sleep clinic.
It is common sense to have a daytime nap if you have daytime drowsiness.
Some farsighted Japanese employers are installing napping areas in workplaces.

katex · 13-01-2008, 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by [email protected]

A sleep disorder can only be correctly diagnosed by tests at a sleep clinic.
It is common sense to have a daytime nap if you have daytime drowsiness.
Some farsighted Japanese employers are installing napping areas in workplaces.

The Power Nap Margaret . well known that if you get just 20 minutes early afternoon, your performance is better. Richard Branson was the first to make this known in the U.K.

Never felt any drowsiness whilst driving .. even when 9/10 hours on there (with breaks though ..like visiting customers), but now more office bound, do get that lull whereby would give anything to shut my eyes for a little while .. work through it though, but think would work much better if I had had a little snooze.

firth_dawn · 13-01-2008, 21:45

i think if it is true that he has a sleep disorder he needs help not a prison sentence as he will be feeling like his guts have been ripped out taking away a whole families lives.