Has Gary McKinnon got off with Crime?

[cashman]

It would be more of a problem, given the massive publicity this has aroused, if some real evil git,got there hands on this bloke.

[Eric]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

No he should not have been extradited. He has Aspergers and you may think this is no excuse, but those who have Aspergers get very caught up on things(they may not realise the risks of doing what they are doing...they are emotionally detached)....they search and they search.
What should be happening is that the US should be enlisting the services of people like him.....then perhaps their computer systems would be more secure. (you need to know where the holes are in your fences, before you can even think of mending them)
It seems that I am in the minority here, but that is my view and I make no apology for it.
Just a question...if the positions had been reversed, and the person had been a US citizen who had hacked into....oh, let's say Britains Defence systems....do you really think the US would have given up one of their citizens to justice here????? I don't think they would.

The yanks don't give up their citizens ... and they don't recognize the decisions of the International Court, unless of course those decisions coincide with American interests. They do as they damn well please. I see no reason why Great Britain doesn't do the same. And this involves telling the European Parliament to go do something biologically difficult every time they try to interfere in the interests of Britain.

[Gordon Booth]

As kestrelx says there's no doubt he knew what he was doing and intended to do harm- he said so in several quotes. The comment 'he was only looking for UFO evidence' is rubbish and was just intended to get sympathy for him. Whether he knew he was doing serious wrong is up to medical experts and the courts- but UK courts.
Refusing to extradite him is a political snub to the USA- telling them they've been going too far with extraditing UK citizens for potential crimes committed in the UK. Don't forget we signed the new extradition treaty, they refused to so it's only working one way.
As for USA security- how can they have a system which could start the third world war but is so open to hacking that someone with Aspergers can get into it and wreck it using a quite low powered laptop?
Makes you wonder how safe our bank accounts,credit cards etc. are!
Yes he should go on trial but here.

[Michael1954]

My vote: he should have been extradited.

[gynn]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Just a question...if the positions had been reversed, and the person had been a US citizen who had hacked into....oh, let's say Britains Defence systems....do you really think the US would have given up one of their citizens to justice here????? I don't think they would.

Exactly what I was going to post, but Margaret beat me to it.

If he has committed a crime, let him be tried for it in this country, where any relevant considerations about his health or state of mind can be properly considered.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth

As for USA security- how can they have a system which could start the third world war but is so open to hacking that someone with Aspergers can get into it and wreck it using a quite low powered laptop?
Makes you wonder how safe our bank accounts,credit cards etc. are!
Yes he should go on trial but here.

Gordon, he may go on trial here...that decision will be made by the DPP.

Did Gary Mc Kinnon wreck the US security system? I haven't read that allegation...but saying that I haven't read everything about the case.

I'm not sure how highpowered your equipment needs to be....I thought it (hacking)was down to computer knowledge and expertise.
Anyway, he showed them that they needed to be much more security savvy if they want to protect their secrets.

I am not anti US, but feel that they need to know that we are no longer their poodle...was it Tony Blair and his cosying up to George Bush that made them think we would jump to their command?

[Guinness]

Strange isn't it, how everyone can so readily accept that someone who uses abusive language for no reason is suffering from a brain issue called Tourettes syndrome, yet cannot accept that someone who behaves in an amoral way is suffering from a brain issue called Aspergers syndrome.

He is not a super hacker, he simply sees the world in a different way to your average Joe Public because of his Aspergers. Many people with Aspergers have an affinity for numbers, a sequence of 1's and 0's whilst meaning nothing to us could look like a Janet and John book to him.

His brain sees things differently just like someone suffering from Dementia. If a woman with dementia shot her husband because she thought a stranger had entered her bedroom would you still be seeking a criminal trial?

[egg&chips]

No to extradition, yes to trial here. If there's been an offence, there should be a trial. But the guy never left the UK, no-one was harmed and I'm not sure if any UK laws were broken. A civil prosecution seems to be the answer.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Guinness

Strange isn't it, how everyone can so readily accept that someone who uses abusive language for no reason is suffering from a brain issue called Tourettes syndrome, yet cannot accept that someone who behaves in an amoral way is suffering from a brain issue called Aspergers syndrome.

He is not a super hacker, he simply sees the world in a different way to your average Joe Public because of his Aspergers. Many people with Aspergers have an affinity for numbers, a sequence of 1's and 0's whilst meaning nothing to us could look like a Janet and John book to him.

His brain sees things differently just like someone suffering from Dementia. If a woman with dementia shot her husband because she thought a stranger had entered her bedroom would you still be seeking a criminal trial?

You sum this up so succinctly.

[Gordon Booth]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Did Gary Mc Kinnon wreck the US security system? I haven't read that allegation...but saying that I haven't read everything about the case.

According to the US Military he shut down 2000 US Army computers for 24 hours and earlier shut down 300 US Navy computers stopping the whole Navy supply chain. He also affected the NASA computers. He told them their security was rubbish(which it obviously was) and promised to continue disruption at the highest level. Cost to sort it-estimated at $700,000.

Originally Posted by Guiness

His brain sees things differently just like someone suffering from Dementia. If a woman with dementia shot her husband because she thought a stranger had entered her bedroom would you still be seeking a criminal trial?

In both cases it should be for a court and medical experts to decide.
He seemed very clear and lucid when he was threatening them- no mention of looking for UFOs then, just calling the USA terrorists and promising to continue wrecking their systems.

Whatever his mental condition he's a dangerous man to be let loose with a computer-he might try it with Russia next time with more dramatic results!

[Guinness]

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth

According to the US Military he shut down 2000 US Army computers for 24 hours and earlier shut down 300 US Navy computers stopping the whole Navy supply chain. He also affected the NASA computers. He told them their security was rubbish(which it obviously was) and promised to continue disruption at the highest level. Cost to sort it-estimated at $700,000.



In both cases it should be for a court and medical experts to decide.
He seemed very clear and lucid when he was threatening them- no mention of looking for UFOs then, just calling the USA terrorists and promising to continue wrecking their systems.

Whatever his mental condition he's a dangerous man to be let loose with a computer-he might try it with Russia next time with more dramatic results!

Although in my opinion there is no doubt he broke into some US government files and messed around, I'd suggest that it was nowhere near as calamitous as has been represented. Probably something like their version of the DVLA. This is the same US government/military (at the time of the offence) that said there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. I just cannot believe that the US keeps it top secret files/launch codes etc.. connected to the internet.

Medical experts have already decided that he has Aspergers. Clarity and lucidity is irrelevant, he is, by nature of how the syndrome affects him, totally amoral.

I agree, he is dangerous with a computer in his hands, which is why he has not been allowed anywhere near a computer since he was originally charged.

P.S. you do realise that putting the words USA and terrorists together means that Homeland Security have logged your IP and now have you on file as a potential threat

[cashman]

Lets be realistic here guinness, how the hell can it be ensured he goes nowhere near a computer? utter balls to me, yeh can have one in yer pocket now.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by kestrelx

As Neil says he should go to court in this country and a court should take everything into account.

I never said he should go to court in this country - just that he should be tried in court for his alleged crime

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Guinness

...And I vote no to extradition...the crime was committed here

Internet type crimes always creates these problems

Where was the crime committed?
Where was the law broken?
Who was the injured party?

Maybe he should be tried here because he was here when he committed the crime and what he did is illegal in this country.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Guinness

If a woman with dementia shot her husband because she thought a stranger had entered her bedroom would you still be seeking a criminal trial?

Yes because it is for the court to decide if a crime has been committed or not.