Has justice been done?

mobertol · 24-08-2012, 13:55

Hard to understand the law at times, just saw that Anders Breivik was given 21 years (minimum of 10 to be served) by the court on Norway -he killed 78 people and injured many others -where's the justice in that sentence?

Anders Behring Breivik’s cell to be The k2p blog

Wynonie Harris · 24-08-2012, 14:46

It just goes to show that stupidity amongst the judiciary is not confined to the UK. He should have been locked up in the most spartan, basic conditions for the rest of his life.

Neil · 24-08-2012, 14:53

I blame stupid judges giving out daft sentences. Look at this fella in the link below, jailed for 9 years but he wont be able to drive for the first 4 year of his jail term as he was also banned from driving for 4 years. Should his ban not start when he leaves prison?

BBC News - Jail for 180mph M6 chase driver Ben Westwood

cashman · 24-08-2012, 15:12

Whilst i agree there are well stupid judges, they can only sentence within the confines of that countries law, its the knobs that set these tariffs,were the real fault lies to me.

Margaret Pilkington · 24-08-2012, 15:16

There is no justice that would bring back those killed......or take away the trauma from the victims that lived.

It isn't our law...but then we haven't much room to gloat...our judicial system is just as flawed.

susie123 · 24-08-2012, 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil

I blame stupid judges giving out daft sentences. Look at this fella in the link below, jailed for 9 years but he wont be able to drive for the first 4 year of his jail term as he was also banned from driving for 4 years. Should his ban not start when he leaves prison?

BBC News - Jail for 180mph M6 chase driver Ben Westwood

It doesn't say in the article when the ban will start - it might be after his release.

susie123 · 24-08-2012, 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman

Whilst i agree there are well stupid judges, they can only sentence within the confines of that countries law,

Cashy is right, there is no life sentence available to give in Norway and it's possible he will get a hard time from his fellow inmates or be kept apart from them for his own safety so it's not all a bed of roses.

When laws are made it's impossible to foresee how they will need to be applied - who would predict that one person would kill so many others at one time? And is it a worse crime than killing just one or two - it's still the taking of life however many it is.

Dianne, you asked the question, what would you do with him?

Boeing Guy · 24-08-2012, 15:29

Having several friends from Norway, they feel it is us who have the wrong justice system.
Despite what Breivik did, they have one of the lowest crime and Homicide rates in the world.
Their justice system is one of Rehabilitation rather than Punishment.

Personally I would just shoot him, it may be what he wants to become a Martyr, but it solves the problem.

Wynonie Harris · 24-08-2012, 15:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by susie123

Cashy is right, there is no life sentence available to give in Norway and it's possible he will get a hard time from his fellow inmates or be kept apart from them for his own safety so it's not all a bed of roses.

When laws are made it's impossible to foresee how they will need to be applied - who would predict that one person would kill so many others at one time? And is it a worse crime than killing just one or two - it's still the taking of life however many it is.

Dianne, you asked the question, what would you do with him?

OK, well it shows that Norwegian lawmakers are just as stupid as ours. If a person murders in cold blood, whether there's one person or a hundred people involved, life should mean life.

Balbus · 24-08-2012, 15:41

"You may get justice in the next world, in this we have only the law."

LancYorkYankee · 24-08-2012, 16:31

I believe the death penalty is warranted in this case.

mobertol · 24-08-2012, 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by susie123

Cashy is right, there is no life sentence available to give in Norway and it's possible he will get a hard time from his fellow inmates or be kept apart from them for his own safety so it's not all a bed of roses.

When laws are made it's impossible to foresee how they will need to be applied - who would predict that one person would kill so many others at one time? And is it a worse crime than killing just one or two - it's still the taking of life however many it is.

Dianne, you asked the question, what would you do with him?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boeing Guy

Despite what Breivik did, they have one of the lowest crime and Homicide rates in the world.
Their justice system is one of Rehabilitation rather than Punishment.

Personally I would just shoot him, it may be what he wants to become a Martyr, but it solves the problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

If a person murders in cold blood, whether there's one person or a hundred people involved, life should mean life.

Wynonie, I do agree that a life sentence should mean just that, in fact my question comes from a prompt on behalf of Less to avoid going off-thread on another post about a petition to enforce a life sentence.

It doesn't exist in Norway apparently and presumably they don't have cumulative sentences otherwise they way forward may have been to try him for each murder separately. There was no doubt about his guilt or his lack of remorse. I think the main question in debate in the trial was really his sanity - I agree with their verdict that he is sane and knew exactly what he was doing and that it was against the law, therefore he is punishable. I don't know about the Norwegian system but I wonder if he may have been detained indefinitely if proved to be insane - it would be a real contradiction if that were the case.

BG -I have never been in favour of taking a life for a life. From what you have written it would be completely against the ethos of the Norwegian justice system to go down that route and while I agree with the idea of Rehabilitation I also believe in Punishment with a capital "P"!

No comforts, hard work and isolation, apart from some form of re-education, would be what I would think appropriate, since you asked Sue. Ultimately, he should have to make some form of reparation to his victims and their families.

Looking at his face in court, during and after the verdict, I think the outcome was exactly what he wanted and had planned which shows that he had thought the whole thing through even to this point knowing how he would be treated.

bernie94 · 24-08-2012, 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by LancYorkYankee

I believe the death penalty is warranted in this case.

i totally agree

mobertol · 24-08-2012, 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by LancYorkYankee

I believe the death penalty is warranted in this case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bernie94

i totally agree

Even though it is a very particular case and his guilt was absolutely beyond all reasonable doubt I still don't think his death would serve any purpose or solve anything. Would it make anyone feel better? I doubt it - but i also doubt that the justice which is being meted out to him will make any of his victims and/or their families feel vindicated either.

Studio25 · 24-08-2012, 17:16

If he had been declared insane, he could have been kept in a padded room eating through a straw and wearing a straightjacket and nappies forever, his manifesto would be dismissed as the ramblings of a madman, and that smirk would have been wiped from his face when sentencing was passed.

It seemed important to the families that he be declared sane, I don't know why.