HBC at it again

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by Guinness

If a council can afford to allocate 20k looking at the viability of building a canalside development with shops, supermarkets and cafes for an area that doesn't really need it, whilst turning down the whitebirk plan, which offered pretty much the same for free, it just gives those halfwits in central government the ammunition to validate such savage cuts.

Go figure

It's not viability, it's hammering out a workable framework that developers have to adhere to and that fits it with the locality as a whole. At the moment there are four plots that are demolished and vacant along the canal which means that we have a golden opportunity to develop them in a holistic way rather than let four developers build on them in their own way for maximum profits and no regard for the impact on infrastructure.

It's a lot of money but in the grand scheme of things will work out beneficially to Rishton long term.

[Guinness]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

It's not viability, it's hammering out a workable framework that developers have to adhere to and that fits it with the locality as a whole. At the moment there are four plots that are demolished and vacant along the canal which means that we have a golden opportunity to develop them in a holistic way rather than let four developers build on them in their own way for maximum profits and no regard for the impact on infrastructure.

It's a lot of money but in the grand scheme of things will work out beneficially to Rishton long term.

And there is the crux...£20k for a framework, for resources, for a village with an abundance of resources where planning permission for similar resources, less than a mile up the road, has already been rejected, yet Woodnook is left to rot, Huncoat is turned into the waste tip for East Lancashire, the town centre is boarded up and left to vagabonds.

Unless, of course, these resources will be the building of a school, nursery and play area for the kids of the families that will be moving in to these four developments, in which case I'll agree to the long term beneficial aspect.

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by Guinness

And there is the crux...£20k for a framework, for resources, for a village with an abundance of resources where planning permission for similar resources, less than a mile up the road, has already been rejected, yet Woodnook is left to rot, Huncoat is turned into the waste tip for East Lancashire, the town centre is boarded up and left to vagabonds.

Unless, of course, these resources will be the building of a school, nursery and play area for the kids of the families that will be moving in to these four developments, in which case I'll agree to the long term beneficial aspect.

Woodnook is most certainly not being left to rot and Clare Pritchard has worked her guts out on this one. Just type 'Clare Pritchard Woodnook' into Google and see what comes up. Millions are being invested in that area as we speak.

The Peel Park scenario became a very tangled web and whilst we all want to see it developed properly the landowners were doing it in quite a sneaky way in order to eventually get what they wanted and go against HBC policy. Developing that as a fully fledged retail park will kill Accrington stone dead but that does not stop the owners regenerating it, the story is simply being peddled that their hands are completely tied which isn't true.

In Rishton (as with any planning application anywhere) new developments have to adhere to local infrastructure guidelines on impact to traffic, schooling, hospitals, etc. If any one development puts a strain on resources then the developers must allocate sufficient resources to help, it isn't all one way. At the moment we have enough resources to cope with one or two developments but it is fairly unlikely that any more would go unchecked by the Planning department because there simply wouldn't be the places at schools, etc.

Planning applications are taken very seriously and all variables are closely scrutinised these days.

[Guinness]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

Woodnook is most certainly not being left to rot and Clare Pritchard has worked her guts out on this one. Just type 'Clare Pritchard Woodnook' into Google and see what comes up. Millions are being invested in that area as we speak.

Fair enough, I stand corrected.

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

The Peel Park scenario became a very tangled web and whilst we all want to see it developed properly the landowners were doing it in quite a sneaky way in order to eventually get what they wanted and go against HBC policy. Developing that as a fully fledged retail park will kill Accrington stone dead but that does not stop the owners regenerating it, the story is simply being peddled that their hands are completely tied which isn't true.

Deepdale didn't kill Preston, Freeport didn't kill Fleetwood, Reebok didn't kill Bolton, Cheshire Oaks didn't kill Chester (the list is endless).....and neither would a retail park have killed Accrington, that's just scaremongering....extremely bad forward planning killed Accrington, nothing will save it now. A retail park would have created jobs, could have had a shuttle bus service from Accrington, could have insisted that planning included reasonably priced small units for small businesses

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

Planning applications are taken very seriously and all variables are closely scrutinised these days.

So why do you need the £20k?

[Margaret Pilkington]

You can't kill something that is already dead...and I think Accrington is just that.
The market is almost ghostly with more empty stalls than occupied ones....and this is on a Saturday.
As for the new bus station being a positive....this is going to take those who use public transport further away from the market so traders are going to be upping sticks and leaving........those planters on Broadway are going to need the lettering altering......because we might have flowers come summer, but the market may be gone.
It really can't be a sensible plan to let market stalls remain empty(bringing in no revenue) surely it would be better to let them out at a nominal charge so that at least there would be a bit of variety....tempt people away from the bus stops to spend money.
I know that other towns are suffering similar problems....but surely that should be a signal for towns to get their heads together and work out some kind of strategies to remedy the problems.
The new bus station isn't the answer it is going to take people away...not bring them in.

[Wynonie Harris]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

Clare and her team have been working tirelessly to get people in to the town centre by holding endless talks with the owners of the Arndale Centre for better rates. The new bus station is on the way, there will be more car parking spaces by the market, the flags in front of the market is being turned into an open-air market once again and there are modifications coming to the town hall to turn it into a proper venue for weddings and conferences.

Ken, please understand this - you can make all the improvements you want to the town centre. You WILL NOT get people coming back while it is populated by junkies, alkis, beggars and assorted low lives. So until the council grow a pair and take steps to tackle the problem and, just as importantly, the reason behind the problem, Accrington centre will continue on its inevitable decline. And that's not "talking the town down", that's stating cold, hard facts.

[Guinness]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

I know that other towns are suffering similar problems....but surely that should be a signal for towns to get their heads together and work out some kind of strategies to remedy the problems.

It's not rocket science, you only have to look at the towns that are dying as opposed to those that are doing just fine.

The death knell is over-modernisation....all the towns that are dead or dying have :-
a) built twisty-winding multi-storey car parks
b) filled the town centres with concrete/brick monstrosities
c) placed maze like one way systems
d) pedestrianised the main high street
e) a ring road that pushes casual shoppers away from the centre of town

Accrington has 4 of the above plus a vagabond problem caused by a very silly, apparently untouchable fruitcake ex-nun. Nothing short of a few bulldozers and a massive influx of cash will save this town, except perhaps for a stray meteor or two.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Guinness

It's not rocket science, you only have to look at the towns that are dying as opposed to those that are doing just fine.

The death knell is over-modernisation....all the towns that are dead or dying have :-
a) built twisty-winding multi-storey car parks
b) filled the town centres with concrete/brick monstrosities
c) placed maze like one way systems
d) pedestrianised the main high street
e) a ring road that pushes casual shoppers away from the centre of town

Accrington has 4 of the above plus a vagabond problem caused by a very silly, apparently untouchable fruitcake ex-nun. Nothing short of a few bulldozers and a massive influx of cash will save this town, except perhaps for a stray meteor or two.

True but she means well.

[BERNADETTE]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

You can't kill something that is already dead...and I think Accrington is just that.
The market is almost ghostly with more empty stalls than occupied ones....and this is on a Saturday.
As for the new bus station being a positive....this is going to take those who use public transport further away from the market so traders are going to be upping sticks and leaving........those planters on Broadway are going to need the lettering altering......because we might have flowers come summer, but the market may be gone.
It really can't be a sensible plan to let market stalls remain empty(bringing in no revenue) surely it would be better to let them out at a nominal charge so that at least there would be a bit of variety....tempt people away from the bus stops to spend money.
I know that other towns are suffering similar problems....but surely that should be a signal for towns to get their heads together and work out some kind of strategies to remedy the problems.
The new bus station isn't the answer it is going to take people away...not bring them in.

Spot on as usual Marg but will they listen? I think not, our town is in a mess but nobody seems to be addressing the cause of the problem. Moving the bus station is definetly not going to cure the problem, in fact I've heard it said that if the proposed move goes ahead, the clothes stall that takes up quite a chunk of the outside market is quitting after many years on Accrington market

[Wynonie Harris]

I disagree that other towns are suffering like Accrington. Every town I go to is busier than Accrington to a greater or lesser extent. Look at Bury - a modern, concrete shopping centre, few of the graceful Victorian buildings that Accrington has, a 20-minute tram ride from the biggest city centre in the North of England and it's thriving.

It's not rocket science - if shoppers are going to be hassled, abused or confronted with the dregs of humanity, they will not shop here. Why won't councillors talk about the problem and the reason why these scumbags are attracted to Accrington? Political correctness maybe?

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

You're changing tack now.

Of course I called Britcliffe while I was in opposition, at every opportunity and for every witless policy, but I thought your point was that I was now criticising him for the very same thing that you think Labour did, ie. talking down the town centre?

We've never done that simply because it doesn't help the town centre.

Still the Britcliffe puppet after all this time, spinning words to make it sound like dirty Labour versus poor Peter.

Disappointing.

ain't heard from Britcliffe for over 6 months, just pointing out you hypocrisy, the only thing I know about HBC is from the local press, as very few councilors come on hear these days, including you. to be honest can't say I've heard much about Britcliffe in the press even, so your just throwing snowballs at the moon as usual.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Less

Ah, right Jay, now we know why you didn't leave, we're coming up to elections and you wish to remain as a Tory sounding board, (or is that a Tory sounding bored?), (perhaps even a boring Tory?), maybe it's a Tory without a cause? Wake up and see what they are doing to the poor, not all on sickness benefit or the dole are scroungers.
For once admit how mean your party is to the vulnerable.

So what your actually say Less is that every person who signs for benefits is totally and utterly entitled to those benefits, wonder why during the reign of the last government DLA increase out of all proportion. This government isn't mean to the vulnerable, they are mean on those pretending to be vulnerable. Years ago if you were of sick for 26 weeks you had to go for a medical and rightly so, why it was stopped I don't know. I will agree that any health checks carried out SHOULD be done by medical professionals not agencies, There's been a program running on BBC1 every day over the last few weeks called Saints and Scroungers, very eye opening to say the least.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

Ken, please understand this - you can make all the improvements you want to the town centre. You WILL NOT get people coming back while it is populated by junkies, alkis, beggars and assorted low lives. So until the council grow a pair and take steps to tackle the problem and, just as importantly, the reason behind the problem, Accrington centre will continue on its inevitable decline. And that's not "talking the town down", that's stating cold, hard facts.

Your wasting your breath Wyn, this has been brought up numerous times in this thread yet Clr Moss doesn't seem to want to answer the question, he keeps mentioning Clare Pritchard and her team, well only gleaning knowledge from the local press these days, Clare Pritchard seems to be something of a one man band as far as HBC is concerned, she seems to be tackling everything in Hyndburn these days, well according to the local press

[Margaret Pilkington]

I wasn't 'talking the town down'....but just expressing an honest and factual viewpoint.
I visit the town centre everyday and I am embarrassed by the down at heel feel to it.
Yesterday we went to Bury to the market....a real market....one with a diversity of stalls and stuff to buy at competitive prices......luscious pies, pungent cheeses........a variety of fruit stalls showing off their wares.
It was a sunny day and it was bustling.
Their shopping mall has its fair share of empty shops, but doesn't feel anything like as depressing as Accrington town centre.

If we want a new bus station, then bulldoze the Arndale, put it on that land and...let traffic flow again through the heart of Accrington because it is the blood that will keep the heart beating.
Make the shops and the market diverse....let's have something that people want to come to our town to see.....and spend money.
Sit back and wait for things to turn around, and we are, as a town, dead.

[Wynonie Harris]

As I've said, Margaret, Bury is thriving...an outstanding example of what can be done with a small town centre living in the shadow of larger towns/cities. But I defy anyone to show me a town centre that's as deserted as Accrington's on a Saturday afternoon.