HBC have taken away the benches from outside the market

[garinda]

We've been informed that these benches have been removed, on the authorisation of person/s yet unkown, and are to be returned, at some unspecified time in the future, as an 'experiment'.

What's the conclusion so far?

Has their removal reduced the risk of our town centre alcoholics indulging in drunken fistycuffs in the area?

Or are they just as likely to be making a nuisance of themselves on Broadway, in Church Street, or as Busman informed us, in Peel Street bus queues, at the side of the Market Hall?

Perhaps if whoever's responsible holds their hands up, we can ask him, or her.

[shillelagh]

i was down accy today ... and there are benches .. ok not in front of the market - but in front of the town hall .... not far from the market .. so why not sit on them instead ...

[garinda]

Originally Posted by shillelagh

i was down accy today ... and there are benches .. ok not in front of the market - but in front of the town hall .... not far from the market .. so why not sit on them instead ...

Er....I have done.

If I happen to have been near those when my legs freeze, and my mum can get me there.

Since we shop in the Market Hall, or used to, before the benches were taken away, they were the ones I sat on more often. Our usual route doesn't go past the Town Hall, but thanks for your concern.

Freezing in Parkinson's Disease - What is Freezing in Parkinson's

[garinda]

Originally Posted by shillelagh

i was down accy today ... and there are benches .. ok not in front of the market - but in front of the town hall .... not far from the market .. so why not sit on them instead ...

As I said my own frustration is purely selfish.

As they happen to be the seats I've used more often than others, whilst shopping in Accrington. I sit there, when I've needed to, whilst someone else gets the rest of my shoping.

Every single person who posted in this thread thinks the decision is wrong.

All except two people I count as friends. A Labour councillor, and a Labour party activist.

Since no one has admitted which numpty is responsible for this decision, but oddly some seem a tad defensive, if the defenders do happen to know who authorised their removal, could you please inform the public, so we can contact them directly, asking that they are brought back?

Thanks.

[Ken Moss]

Right, let's settle this then everyone can climb down off the moral high ground.

Firstly, my apologies for not always replying straight away. Things such as work and sleep occasionally prevent me from being poised with an arsenal of answers at my computer screen 24/7. When I don't have those answers I will try to find out or at least point you all in the right direction.

Secondly, I have already presented the facts behind the removal of the benches several times to various people in various ways and it is patently obvious that there are still those of you who think there must be some sinister cover up which I am not revealing. If anyone has a problem with what I present as fact to the public at large then it ceases to be my problem as there is little else that I can do to persuade someone other than telling it how it is. Long before control of HBC shifted I strove to get answers for Accyweb and you seemed satisfied with that, now a number are convinced that I have suddenly turned into someone different who is deceiving you all or trying to hide something.

By all means question council policy, it is your right as a taxpayer to do so and I would never dissuade anyone from taking an active interest but at least listen to the facts and the reasoning behind decisions. If you still don't agree then that's fine by me but I have gone over the facts behind the removal of the benches half a dozen times now and am still being asked to answer the same questions. Let's have a precis for the final time:

Complaints have been received (largely from the people who use the Market Hall) regarding drunks loitering and peeing up the walls and on the benches. The drunks enjoy being arrested because they get free food and lodging for the night. The police have liaised with HBC to try and remedy the problem and a solution put forward involved removing the benches for a trial period to move the drunks away from the Market Hall. No one is suggesting this is ideal or is a complete solution to town centre drunks. Clare Pritchard is responsible for all town centres across the borough and has been involved in the discussions. There is a Town Centre Manager although I personally won't risk dragging a council officer's name through the mud in a public debate. The problem has apparently got much better since the benches were removed and they will be going back at some point in the near future, when exactly I do not know as I am not part of the discussions.

That is all I can tell you. I have neither defended it or criticised it, I have simply told you how it is. The council were presented by a problem from residents and the local police and attempted to solve it in what was perceived to be a reactive way. Whenever this happens it will ruffle feathers and sometimes HBC will get it wrong. I'm not saying that this decision was right or wrong but it does appear to have remedied the problem it was intended to solve.

At the risk of further fanning the flames, this thread is raging against the temporary removal of some benches, not some huge financial scandal or closure of a major public amenity. I realise it affects certain residents much more than others but a quick read through of Cllr Smith's finance report demonstrates the real problems affecting the borough just now:

http://www.hyndburnbc.gov.uk/downloa...Monitoring.pdf

In real terms, with all the cuts being imposed by central government together with the necessity to replace a fleet of waste disposal vehicles that the Britcliffe administration didn't budget for, we will have just £19,000 left over next May as things currently stand. Way off topic but an indicator of why HBC are concentrating more on finance than town centre benches.

It has been levelled at me that I spent 18 months attacking the Britcliffe administration. Of course I did, I was in opposition and tried to get to the bottom of anything which didn't smell quite right. However, he isn't here anymore and my energies can be directed into proper attempts to whittle out the waste I saw so much of previously. I now have a position at HBC that allows me to root around from the inside and as the Cabinet are all too aware I won't tolerate it from my own lot either. I would invite you all to keep an eye on the activities of my committee to see just how I am trying to sort out bigger problems:

Resources Overview and Scrutiny Committee

I sadly don't have the time any longer to spend hours enjoying discussions on this forum, much the same as the other Labour members. This is not because we're dodging bullets but because the five main contributors have all ended up with fairly intensive jobs up at the council. At the moment, you have members on the council (and even your MP) who are prepared to give reasoning behind council decisions, something I don't ever remember from our illustrious predecessors.

It pains me to be so blunt on this forum as I have spent many happy hours debating endless topics but recently it seems that whatever facts I give out are treated with utmost suspicion and any attempts to give people tips on the right way of going about things are suddenly my way of side-stepping issues.

As a final point I would like to reiterate that if anyone has any comment, query or problem that they want a proper answer to then the HBC Enquiries address is the one to go through if you want the facts from someone other than a councillor. Ask anything and you will be given a log number and a reply within 10 working days, it is a great system:

[email protected]

[garinda]

Blimey, that was an epic post.

Still no information as to who decided to remove them, so we can ask that person when they're coming back.

Or even enquire of them if the 'experiment' has worked, and there's now no longer a problem, caused by people drinking in our town centre.

Anyway, cheers Ken, as you say, you're a busy man, but thanks for trying.

Though it seems a bit pointless, as you apparently don't know who the, quote, 'joint decision makers' were.

I'm sure I'll do my twice weekly shop, health permitting, in Accrington again, when someone tells me the benches have been returned, at this yet unspecified future date.

In the meantime I'll continue shopping in neighbouring towns.

Which so far have all luckily had welcome benches....of which there seems to be no charge to use them, despite what you posted about some of our neigbours charging a fee to park your arse on 'em.

[garinda]

...and as Accy Web is a community forum, not just a political soap box, as a member of the community, I, like everyone else who posted that removing the benches was a daft idea, will probably use this forum to selfishly moan about their disappearance, until they're returned.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by garinda

'If' stall holders, or the burger van, complained, why not just move the benches further away from the building?

Problem solved.


.

I totally disagree with that Rindi, benches are an inanimate object and there for a purpose, to allow people like yourself to have a rest and catch their breath before carrying on there town centre business, there are already laws which forbid the drinking of alcohol in the town centre, its up to the police to enforce these laws, removing or simply moving the benches is not necessary, its just the easy way out

[Ken Moss]

Use the Enquiries email address to ask ANY question and it will be directed to the relevant department who will give you the proper answers. I don't have all the answers and never will but it will spare a lot of arguments if people ask civil servants rather than doubting the statements from side-stepping self-serving politicians.

[email protected]

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by katex

Thing is ... not only who was the deciding authority in taking them away .. who will give the order to put them back, seeing as it is temporary like ?

These decisions should be taken by councillors and nobody else Kate, after all its they who take the flak, when things go belly up

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by garinda

...and as Accyweb is a community forum, not just a political soap box, as a member of the community, I, like everyone else who posted that removing the benches was a daft idea, will probably use this forum to selfishly moan about their disappearance, until they're returned.

A political soap box is used to spread the gospel of your chosen ethos, not to explain why, when you have gained the power you so readily desired, what your doing and why or in this case who's doing it

[Wynonie Harris]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

The problem has apparently got much better since the benches were removed and they will be going back at some point in the near future

...and therein lies the basic contradiction at the heart of this move and why it's doomed to failure.

But thanks for the info anyway, Ken.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by jaysay

A political soap box is used to spread the gospel of your chosen ethos, not to explain why, when you have gained the power you so readily desired, what your doing and why or in this case who's doing it

Yeh mean like you used to do wi the observor? on there behalf of course.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

Use the Enquiries email address to ask ANY question and it will be directed to the relevant department who will give you the proper answers. I don't have all the answers and never will but it will spare a lot of arguments if people ask civil servants rather than doubting the statements from side-stepping self-serving politicians.

[email protected]

We already saw this.

Personally I prefer to deal with the person who is most likely to be able to help me, and not get fobbed off with a little number, from the council switchboard.

Since you keep posting in this thread, despite what's happened being nothing to do with yourself, would you pleade answer a straightforward question Ken, if you do know the answer?

Who exactly was responsible for the 'joint decision' to remove the benches, so I can contact them directly, in the hope that this person/s has presumably the required authority to have them returned?

Thanks.

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by garinda

We already saw this.

Personally I prefer to deal with the person who is most likely to be able to help me, and not get fobbed off with a little number, from the council switchboard.

Since you keep posting in this thread, despite what's happened being nothing to do with yourself, would you pleade answer a straightforward question Ken, if you do know the answer?

Who exactly was responsible for the 'joint decision' to remove the benches, so I can contact them directly, in the hope that this person/s has presumably the required authority to have them returned?

Thanks.

I don't know who was involved in the discussions but Clare Pritchard was involved at some stage.

On the subject of the Enquiries address, it's a far from being fobbed off as you can get and indeed the councillors themselves use it because it is the best way of logging and following up any complaint. You get a log number and a reply within the hour to tell you where your query has been directed and a guarantee of a reply from a council officer within 7-10 working days. I would always advocate that as the best point of contact for a source of cast iron answers to any problem.

There's really no getting out of it from a council point of view, you MUST be given an answer.