Headlines in tonights Telegraph

claytonender · 26-07-2006, 22:22

What are your opinions about the possible merger between Hyndburn and Blackburn?
Considering the Peter Britcliffe was totally opposed to this when there was the local government review 2 years ago, I personally find his attitude hard to understand (which is how I find most of his decisions). It also poses the question, do we are council tax payers not get any say in what we would like to happen.
I know that the status quo of 2 tier government needs to be looked at, but I think a local authority for the whole of East Lancashire would be a better solution, not some bothched scheme, as the one described in the Telegraph appears to be.

accymel · 26-07-2006, 22:27

Yeh i heard about this earlier - which was news to me - one question why???? I used to live in Blackburn for a brief spell & came back ere!! Good idea maybe to get out of clutches of Lancashire County Council rule but do we want to be under Blackburn with Darwen clutches

i think not

Least with LCC its better the devil you know than the ones you dont as they say.

Like you say Claytonender doesn't the people of Hyndburn get a say in this???

SPUGGIE J · 26-07-2006, 22:29

Nope not on! Have our beloved Accy lose its identity when swallowed up by Blackburn with Darwen! The bigger the authority the more red tape the higher the council tax more desk jokies (not jockies) in obscure high paid jobs. When They disbanded Central Regional Council up here and gave the powers they had to the 3 councils things went down hill and became costly and the same could be said of this idea.

Madhatter · 27-07-2006, 01:08

your always going to be under LCC control, they are the county council.
Your borough council is Hyndburn. It's not good to have blackburn council looking after an area away from it. They know nothing about the area for one, and it's more built up. If your going to merge you should merge with rossendale.

BillGreene · 27-07-2006, 06:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madhatter

your always going to be under LCC control, they are the county council.
Your borough council is Hyndburn. It's not good to have blackburn council looking after an area away from it. They know nothing about the area for one, and it's more built up. If your going to merge you should merge with rossendale.

Blackburn with Darwen is not under the control of LCC and my reading of what was said in the papers is that the political leaders of Hyndburn want to take power away from LCC and with the support of Blackburn make the decisions themselves on issues such as education and social services.

AIUI the proposal is for the merger of the support functions with the political decision making remaining separate. If that is true, and it is a big if, then Hynburn will be looked after by Hyndburn politicians.

As regards the possible merger with Rossendale. From my very limited knowledge I do not believe that Rossendale would want this. The local geography affects the way that people think. The building of the M65 has changed the way that people now think about this area.

For better or worse, since the burilding of the improved road network, there is evidence to suggest that the people of Hyndburn are increasing using Blackburn for work, shopping and leisure activities. If this is true then is it not surprising that this proposal is being considered.

claytonender · 27-07-2006, 08:29

Whilst I agree that the building of the M65 has changed the transport links within East Lancashire, I don't agree that it has made Blackburn the natural place for Hyndburn residents to work, shop and pursue their leisure activities. For many people in Hyndburn, Blackburn is a place to avoid like the plague. It has always been considered a 'Big Brother' who wanted to gobble up all around it. The M65 does facilitate quick access to other areas, but it is also a two way thing. There are lots of Blackburn residents working in Hyndburn as well. As for shops, there is a much better selection of shopping in Bury, which is even easier and quicker to get too, via the A56/M66 than Blackburn, for lots of residents of Hyndburn. Although I worked in Blackburn for several years, I have always found Blackburn people to be most unfriendly and very insular. I have also worked in Pendle and Burnley and there everyone is so friendly and helpful. This also goes for shopping in Burnley.
I think the best solution, and to create an authority which would be large enough to attract serious investment would be an East Lancashire Authority comprising Pendle, Burnley, Rossendale, Hyndburn and the parts of RibbleValley that are immediately adjacent. Because of the large geographical area of RibbleValley, some parts must have more affinity with Blackburn and Preston.

andrewb · 27-07-2006, 08:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madhatter

your always going to be under LCC control, they are the county council.
Your borough council is Hyndburn. It's not good to have blackburn council looking after an area away from it. They know nothing about the area for one, and it's more built up. If your going to merge you should merge with rossendale.

Blackburn with Darwen is what they call a Unitary Authority, which has a single tier and is responsible for all local government functions in the area, where as county councils(hyndburn) and district councils(LCC) have the functions divided between them in a two tier system.

g jones · 27-07-2006, 09:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillGreene

Blackburn with Darwen is not under the control of LCC and my reading of what was said in the papers is that the political leaders of Hyndburn want to take power away from LCC and with the support of Blackburn make the decisions themselves on issues such as education and social services.

Several issues.
** (These are my own observations and not the views of other Labour Group members)

Contracting in Blackburn (officers &) services - we will lose influence over employment, policy emphasis, structure within departments. Will we end up in reality being tied so much to Blackburn, we become 'Blackburns poodle'?

To transfer staff (from LCC to Bburn) will be costly and complex, paid for by us? Could be *10%-15% on HBC Council Tax just to achieve it (*Bburns cost when it went unitary).

What happens when Blackburn changes its way, or policies and we don't agree, who do we buy services from then and what will hapen to employees of the company (B'burn Council in this case) when we source elsewhere? This model suggests a supermarket concept, we don't like one product or provider we can buy from another, who?

Isn't this the thin end of the wedge. Inevitably we will have opened the door to a Blackburn with Hyndburn Council?

When are the public going to be consulted, and when will Councillor Britcliffe allow other ideas to be discussed other than his own. Particularly what opposition parties are suggesting as they are as involved as he is and know as much? Lets not cheat the public with the discussion.

claytonender · 27-07-2006, 11:03

I agree entirely with Graham. I can't see how we can contract services to Blackburn without losing most of the control.
the other danger, as I see it, is that if we do this quasi merger with Blackburn and Darwen, when there is next a review of local government, Hyndburn will be perceived (to the reviewers) as being an extension of Blackburn. So they will propose that the two authorities are fully merged.

I also think that, as council tax payers, and residents of Hyndburn we should be lobbying Peter Britcliffe, so that there can be at least consultaton and preferably a refurendum on the proposal.

Madhatter · 27-07-2006, 12:36

so your saying that blackburn and darwin are both borough and county and local, in the middle of a county where all other areas have a county council. they are in effect their own county like manchester.

how does the budget get divided then, because at the moment some of your council tax goes to county. That means they have to raise entire funds to do everything themselves from tax, which as they are a high density area is quite possible, but if accrington followed, could accrington.

I can't see what you have to gain, and can see that you have lots to lose.

jambutty · 27-07-2006, 12:40

Blackburn gobbled up Darwen and now it looks like they have eyes on Hyndburn. I don’t like it any more than the Accringtonians do even though I now live in Darwen and have lived most of my adult life in Blackburn. I was brought up, went to school and had my first two jobs in Accrington.

If Blackburn gets its way it will then be Rossendale and then who?

Bigger is not necessarily better and the reason that it will save money doesn’t wash with me.

Madhatter · 27-07-2006, 12:56

I don't think they'd want rossendale, it's too rural, like North Warwickshire. They'd try to pick of hasslingdon and Rawtenstall and leave the rest. Tamworth tried to do that with polesworth a while back.
Basically they're just after the building land around accy and inbetween accy and blackburn.

claytonender · 27-07-2006, 12:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty

Blackburn gobbled up Darwen and now it looks like they have eyes on Hyndburn. I don’t like it any more than the Accringtonians do even though I now live in Darwen and have lived most of my adult life in Blackburn. I was brought up, went to school and had my first two jobs in Accrington.

If Blackburn gets its way it will then be Rossendale and then who?

Bigger is not necessarily better and the reason that it will save money doesn’t wash with me.

Well said Jambutty, it might eventually save money, but in the short term the costs of all the changes will have to be financed.

Also, Blackburn and Darwen council have outsourched a lot of their services to Capita. This means that these jobs are now done by people who earn a much lower salary, which must also have a detrimental affect on the local economy. The levels of wages in Hyndburn are already very low, with a large number of people only being paid the minimum wage. So if jobs, which historically have paid better then disappear, there will be even less money in the local economy, which will depress it even more. I suppose that would mean even more pound shops in Accrington, as if we haven't already got enough.

SPUGGIE J · 27-07-2006, 13:08

Sorry but dont tthink it will be short term pain long term gain. Claytonender has hit the nail on the head with the wages senario and what the lack of money will do. Big is not better and will lead to inequality to thaose in Accy (see the result every day up here.) Blackburn would be on top getting all it wants and if lucky Hyndburn might get the boiled bones that are left if they think they have no use for them.

jambutty · 27-07-2006, 13:23

Capita personnel may earn less than their Council counterparts but you can bet your sweet life that the senior management have got their snout in the trough.

When Blackburn ate Darwen they chose to call the result Blackburn with Darwen Borough Council. To me that implies that Darwen is the major part. Anyone else share that view?

And just to confuse the issue Darwen is part of the Rossendale national constituency and not in bed with Blackburn.

It’s a strange world.