Health and Safety

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Neil

A lot of it is just common sense put into writing for those that dont have any.

Neil, you are spot on.
People assume that 'Common Sense' is, well, common. It isn't.....not one little bit common.

Whe I was nursing, our Senior Tutor.......Miss Frankland, told us that we should abandon that phrase, and instead use 'application of knowledge'....but that isn't foolproof either, because some people have knowledge but don't know how to apply it in different circumstances to what they were taught.....they cannot transfer known things to apply to new situations.

Then there are those poor unfortunate souls who do not have the knowledge in the first place.

You cannot assume people have either knowledge of the ability to transfer what they do have into new situations....this is how H&S was formulated....and that is why, in large corporations/organsiations, there are protocols, risk assessments and H&S guidelines.

In law, every employer has to have them....and if they don't and there is an accident/incident that should have been prevented by H&S protocols that are not documented or in place, then the employer is in for big financial penalties.

[Benipete]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Neil, you are spot on.
People assume that 'Common Sense' is, well, common. It isn't.....not one little bit common.
In law, every employer has to have them....and if they don't and there is an accident/incident that should have been prevented by H&S protocols that are not documented or in place, then the employer is in for big financial penalties.

I think what some people are trying to say is that sometimes (quite often in my opinion) H&S is used more as an excuse for not doing something than a reason.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Well, that might be the case, but if there are H&S protocols written and someone goes against them then they are up for the high jump.
I think there has to be evidence to suggest that people did nothing because it was the easy option.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by yerself

Remind us which party formed the government when Britain joined the then EEC. In case you can't recall here's a reminder:
BBC News | Ever closer union? The UK and Europe

No need to remind me but I do know who have sold us completely down the River by refusing a referendum on the Lisbon treaty

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Benipete

I think what some people are trying to say is that sometimes (quite often in my opinion) H&S is used more as an excuse for not doing something than a reason.

Quite right Beni, you only have to look at some of these no win no fee adverts, I specifically think of the Guy who says he was sent to fit an alarm system and was given the wrong type of ladder, more fool him for using it the twerp

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by cashman

Thats the bit hes conveniently forgot.

But I haven't forgot that there was a referendum as to whether we stayed in the European Union in the mid seventies and the vote was yes

[garinda]

Originally Posted by jaysay

Quite right Beni, you only have to look at some of these no win no fee adverts, I specifically think of the Guy who says he was sent to fit an alarm system and was given the wrong type of ladder, more fool him for using it the twerp

To be fair, we recently had a sad case locally, in which a worker died because his employers had provided their employees with unsafe scaffolding, on which they were told to work.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Barrie Yates

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil
I am big on H&S but only when its sensible and correct. I see to many stupid ideas still.

So do you decide what is sensible and correct and what is stupid? Sort of "Pick & Mix"

yes

[Margaret Pilkington]

When I was working, I was responsible for the maintenance and upkeep of H&S protocols and risk assessments and the records of the protocols/risk assessments......before being charged with this responsibility I was given training...this included information from the NHS Trusts Legal department....it left me in no doubt as to what would happen if protocols, records and risk assessments were not kept properly and updated regularly...and I am pretty sure it hasn't got any easier.

Litigation means that you have to write it down.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by garinda

To be fair, we recently had a sad case locally, in which a worker died because his employers had provided their employees with unsafe scaffolding, on which they were told to work.

Well if it was unsafe why did they use it, better to tell um to stick their job than lose your life

[garinda]

Originally Posted by jaysay

Well if it was unsafe why did they use it, better to tell um to stick their job than lose your life

Sadly life sometimes isn't so black and white.

Lancashire widow's fury at scaffold death blunders (From Lancashire Telegraph)

Firm fined £1 over Lancashire worker's death (From Lancashire Telegraph)

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by garinda

Sadly life sometimes isn't so black and white.

Lancashire widow's fury at scaffold death blunders (From Lancashire Telegraph)

Firm fined £1 over Lancashire worker's death (From Lancashire Telegraph)

That's totally appalling G. I think this kind of incident happens when an outside source is asked to provide this type of equipment, luckily when I was employed and scaffolding was required I either erect it myself or the company had its own scaffolders i.e. John Laing Construction (they had H & S officers way back in the 60s) but the boss of this firm seems a bit of an iffy character to say the least

[garinda]

Originally Posted by jaysay

That's totally appalling G. I think this kind of incident happens when an outside source is asked to provide this type of equipment, luckily when I was employed and scaffolding was required I either erect it myself or the company had its own scaffolders i.e. John Laing Construction (they had H & S officers way back in the 60s) but the boss of this firm seems a bit of an iffy character to say the least

Although some of it does seem daft, I suppose that's why we have legislation, to help mimimise the risk to people whose employers aren't quite as keen on safety issues.

[Benipete]

Originally Posted by jaysay

Well if it was unsafe why did they use it, better to tell um to stick their job than lose your life

I think that If you are asked to work on a scaffold that was erected by a legitimate scaffolding firm you should be safe to assume it was erected correctly.

Hardly the same as being so thick you used the wrong ladder.

[garinda]

...and it might be someone, an apprentice say, or someone just starting a job after being unemployed for a long time, without the confidence to tell their employer that they can 'stick their job'.