Health delivered.

[Doug]

Very laudable sentiment Slinky and I am sure that you are a very competent carer. In respect of your comments I can remember a time when it was the other way round and the flow was from the private sector into the wards, how times change eh? I’ve never met you but I would be more than comfortable in offering you a job.

I’ve been a care adviser in the private sector for a few years and I am certainly aware that in reality things haven’t change all that much. Many residential care homes and the domiciliary home care sector still neglect this type of training in favour of the staples like Moving & Handling, Health and Safety, Food Hygiene and First Aid at the expense of training in Adult Protection, Continence, Bowel Management, Pressure Relief, and Fluid Balance and many other areas of training.

National Occupational Standards for Health and Social Care and the current Skills for Care consultation in respect of certificated Induction Standards should rectify some of the shortfalls still in the system. However, the low rates within the private sector and effects that profit motivated care providers have on the system will mean that some people will continue to suffer unnecessarily. The recent Green Paper on Independence, Well-being and Choice promises much but relies on changes within the sector without additional funding being made available. I have much more faith in agencies recognising the benefits of pulling closer together in realistic partnerships and adopting achievable person centred approaches and outcome based practises.

I do believe that you are being a little unfair and the Nursing Profession in some of your comments. Mainly that they don’t train or understand basic principles of care, they do on both counts. What you might find is a lack of commitment in some sectors, major understaffing of wards, indifferent managers and some nursing staff that have become overqualified and feel that they are above delivering basic care to users, above all else is the lost of basic care management skills on the wards.

[lettie]

As discussed in previous threads, nurse training has changed to a more academic focus. IMO, this change was not for the better. Some student nurses now think that they are above such menial tasks as helping to keep wards clean, and basic nursing care, ie, pressure area care, oral hygiene and toileting.

This magazine may have cost a fortune to produce, but if it contains statistics about dental care then it has more than likely been produced by the PCT rather than the hospital trust. The PCTs are funded separately to the hospital trusts and have different management. I will await my copy and see if I can track down where it has come from.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Wherever it comes from it sounds like a waste of money that would have been better spent elsewhere.

[lettie]

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

Wherever it comes from it sounds like a waste of money that would have been better spent elsewhere.

I couldn't agree more. We have no money for extra staff, which would go a long way towards improving services, but the NHS (whether it is PCT or Hospital Trust) can produce a glossy mag which literally tells people nothing.

Bear in mind that when anything changes in the NHS it usually stems from some government report. These are lengthy, boring reads but basically recommend what they consider to be best practise within the NHS. Keeping patients informed of services is usually amongst them. The government get their info from surveying what people want, through the use of various working parties, research papers, pressure groups and Trust Boards which contain 'lay' members. They are shortsighted when it comes to setting up such services, in that they will often provide a certain amount of funding, but it is never enough to actually set up and staff the new service without cuts being made elsewhere, eg. staffing of general services in favour of specialist services.

When you look at the top government bods who are in control of health services, it is hardly surprising that the NHS is a shambles. Patricia Hewitt (the health secretary) has a background in working for Age Concern, National Council for Civil Liberties, Press Officer and the Institute for Public Policy Research. She was once investigated by MI5 and is actually Australian by birth. Liam Byrne (parliamentary under secretary for care services) has a background in investment banking. Caroline Flint (parliamentary sec for public health) was a local government officer and political officer for the GMB union. Jane Kennedy (Minister of state for quality and patient safety) was a social worker.

Where are the doctors, nurses, midwives, health visitors, radiographers, pharmacists or in fact, anyone who has worked recently in frontline NHS...........

No wonder we are in a mess...

[garinda]

Lettie you are right the magazine was produced by Hyndburn and Ribble Valley PCT.
They have a website at www.hrvpct.nhs.uk

There's also a number to call if you'd like a copy of the magazine, which is on the website.

[Romps]

Originally Posted by slinky

Don't talk to me about hospitals..............

I know that they do a good job usually............. BUT!! today I had a training course about prevention of pressure sores.

Touch wood, our patients very, very rarely break down with pressure sores as we have good knowledge and understanding about how they occur, how to prevent them and how to deal with them if they occur.

The one question I asked the trainer at the end is, If we are taught this then why do so many of our patients go into hospital pressure sore free, and almost always return back to us riddled with them.

Well the response to this is, that apparently in hospitals the staff are under the impression that, if they are on a Air mattress, then these people don't need to be re-positioned through out their stay in hospital.

My response was " um mm well obviously, if their skin is breaking down then, duh yes they do".

Apparently nursing staff in hospitals are not trained on pressure sore care and preventatives. Now in my opinion, someone breaks down with a pressure sore, someone somewhere isn't doing their job properly..................does this not equal NEGLECT??..........mmmmm yes. So simple. Train the staff in pressure sore management, and keep patient comfortable.

Rindy maybe they could use the money they spent on sending trash through the door to you, on training!!!!!!!!!!

practice and preach spring to mind there Slinks!!!

Totally disgusting that Nursing staff are not trained in pressure care/relief. I think if training is done at source it tends to filter down. I think people who trained a few years ago are pressure area aware (remember the backs trolley ), but from my experience nurse training today is less 'hands-on' and more management based. Which really isn't (in my opinion) a good reason to choose nursing as a career, I am all for management and promotion but in nursing 'hands-on' should be the the main reason for wanting to nurse.

[slinky]

Originally Posted by Romps

I am all for management and promotion but in nursing 'hands-on' should be the the main reason for wanting to nurse.

Totally agree with you there Romps. Apparently , many moons ago, when elderly were placed on Nightingale wards, pressure care and other training in regards to the health of the elderly were taken and training was given.

But now that we have nursing homes and residential homes, apparently the hospital has taken a hands off approach to the prevention of pressure care, and this is why many hospitals are under the impression that if the patient is placed on a Air mattress, then there is no need for Re-positional routines for this patient.

Anyway, No more of this, or I will get pounced on for thread wondering!!!!!!!!

[SPUGGIE J]

When all the hands on stuffis lost thats when standerds slip faster than a stock market crash. Yes management is need but so are nurses who are good at the caring hands on part of the job. If the knowledge is passed from group to another then patients benifit but when a link in the chain breaks the patient suffers. Nurses have always been the people that patients and patients family interact with. Remove these skills and it will be a sad day in nursing.

[garinda]

In the last six months I've seen some wonderful nursing, both at Queen's Park and at the Royal Victorian hospital in Manchester.

I also had the misfortune to meet one of the most badly suited people ever to go into nursing. I'd love to name and shame the little twit but we are in the process of making a complaint against him so I can't. Suffice to say he apparently left his career in the motor trade and went into nursing because he wanted to meet girls and find a wife. He's in charge of a ward at Queen's Park, and has as much nursing skills in him as the Yorkshire Ripper.

[Romps]

Originally Posted by garinda

In the last six months I've seen some wonderful nursing, both at Queen's Park and at the Royal Victorian hospital in Manchester.

I also had the misfortune to meet one of the most badly suited people ever to go into nursing. I'd love to name and shame the little twit but we are in the process of making a complaint against him so I can't. Suffice to say he apparently left his career in the motor trade and went into nursing because he wanted to meet girls and find a wife. He's in charge of a ward at Queen's Park, and has as much nursing skills in him as the Yorkshire Ripper.

MMM got me a thinking head on now!!!

[Doug]

I think that a little red mist is developing here. I feel that you are being a little unfair and most likely a little misinformed. You will find good and bad in all Hospitals and you will find that this is true both in the past as it is now. All nursing staff receive basic care principles training, including pressure relief, undoubtedly there are individuals who believe that they are above hands on tend to be led by the assumption that through RGN Qualification they are trained managers, They maybe trained to manage on paper but in practice they are not because a trained manager would organise, motivate and delegate to the ward staff whose job it is to deliver hands on care, these would include Staff Nurse’s, Auxiliary Nurse’s and Health Care Assistants. In the eight years I spent in the front line of Geriatric nursing I have meet and worked with some excellent carers, nurses, doctor’s and specialists. I have all so met some real s***s but they didn’t bring the field down with them. Be assured that training is given and experience is passed on, but there will always be exceptions. If care is not being given to the homes or hospitals you work in do something about it. In respect of unaligned tutors who seem to be able to spread contempt without understanding the damage they are doing I have little regard for. To receive qualified training in pressure care the tutor providing the training must themselves be qualified.

[accymel]

I suppose the NHS can only be as good as its funded

[garinda]

Originally Posted by accymel

I suppose the NHS can only be as good as its funded

Perhaps less spent on stupid, management based, glossy magazines and more on actual health care?

[accymel]

Originally Posted by garinda

Perhaps less spent on stupid, management based, glossy magazines and more on actual health care?

Very true!!!! its quite hyprocritical really that they produce these glossies only to gloss over the real problems, i mean do they not think we'd find out the truth ?? LOL

[garinda]

Originally Posted by accymel

Very true!!!! its quite hyprocritical really that they produce these glossies only to gloss over the real problems, i mean do they not think we'd find out the truth ?? LOL

Yes it was in very small print that the general dental services budget has been slashed by more than two thirds, and even smaller print that the mamagement budget for the same period has risen.