Here we go again

[churchfcrules]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

It seems that those who give the most(giving your life for your country - well, you can't give more than that, can you?)get the least, both in financial terms, and in terms of recognition and respect.
But then some people do not live their lives with a constant eye on 'what's in it for me'.
Doing the deed, the job of work, is a reward in itself.
Somewhere along the way the values of the world seem to have become skewed....and the mighty dollar/pound/euro has become the be all and end all.

All our politicians(the major players anyway) seem to be 'career politicians'.......not many of them have done a proper job.
They have no concept of what it is like to be on a fixed income and struggle to make ends meet....perhaps if they did they would be more 'human'...more compassionate even.

That was my point Margaret, civic duty should be for civic pride

Not what's in it for me!

[Barrie Yates]

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany

Different jobs Ken ? Two sides of the same coin, servants of the public I think you'll find they're both supposed to be, looking out for the best interests & defence of the British people, their way of life. To stand up for & defend to the very last instance, despite personal feelings or concerns, it ain't always beer & skittles, some times you've got to man up & take your hits so the folks back home don't have to.

Far as I can see there's only one group of these public servants, taking the kickings for Joe public & it isn't the gob she-ites in Westminster. Hell they've not even got the balls to fight for our Countries rights when the enemy is just bandying about words ! Politicians make all the noises, spout rhetoric & threats but who is it that has to sort the problem in the end ? Aye, the 18 year old with the rifle !

So again I ask you, who's the better value for money ?

I was often required to be on duty for 60 and more hours per week, rail travel was not first class unless overnight on a sleeper and that was for security reasons, air travel was always cattle class.
If MPs have to work so many hours that KM suggests how do they find time to act as "Consultants" to companies - reported in the Press recently that GJ is paid in the region of £10k for his consultancy work.
As for the cost of living in London - they get a hell of a lot more than servicemen there on London Weighting Allowance, and they should have known beforehand what the "costs" of working in London are - they are supposed to be intelligent aren't they. I was fully aware of what my additional costs were going to be, and my salary, when I moved into the upstairs Mess.
Anyone who applies for, and takes, a new position should research the pertinent facts and not come crying when he/she finds the work is too demanding. As DinG says, think of the servicemen who are prepared to give a hell of a lot more than any politician for a great deal less in salary, pension, perks and family life. The serviceman is the person who is prepared to make the sacrifice after the MPs have put them in the precarious position by their actions - or lack of. The same goes for the screwing up of this country in general - by the politicians.

[accyman]

they find time to do other jobs because they sleep through parliament and only wake up to kiss their leaders arse

[Wynonie Harris]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

I've said many times before that I wouldn't fancy being an MP due to the work involved and having seen the pace of Graham's life since he became the Hyndburn member that's pretty much sealed it for me. Your life is even less your own than as a Councillor and unless you live in London to start with it is a huge upheaval spending so much time away from your family. £60k+ sounds like a fortune and compared to most in the North West it is but even those at the top level don't get the massive perks that the general public perceive.

I think if you're expecting sympathy from the long-suffering taxpayer for the plight of our oh-so-put-upon politicians, you're batting on a sticky wicket, Ken!

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

I think if you're expecting sympathy from the long-suffering taxpayer for the plight of our oh-so-put-upon politicians, you're batting on a sticky wicket, Ken!

You should know me better than that! I just recognise that it isn't the easy gravy train that many people believe it to be and I personally would not give up so much of my private life to do that job. Remember this is coming from someone who is self-employed!!

Some do go into it for the perks but they get found out eventually, just the same as poor quality Councillors.

[Guinness]

Originally Posted by ToffeeGuy

The simple fact is, and it is a difficult one for most taxpayers to swallow, that MPs aren't paid enough. I'll say that again, they aren't paid enough.

I'm not paid enough, and I'll say it again, I'm not paid enough. Pensioners who have put in the pot all their lives aren't paid enough, many professions aren't paid enough.

The government is banging on about austerity, and, whilst the majority of the plebs understand the need for this and try to cut their cloth accordingly, accepting little or no pay rises year on year, the bottom feeding non producers in Westminster just look for ways to feather their own nests laughing all the way to the bank and thumbing their noses at the general public.

These people are in a position of ultimate trust....and time after time after time they break that trust, instead of looking to help the people they represent they look for ways to make as much money as they can via loopholes in laws that they have helped create.

Pigs feeding at the trough

[Guinness]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

You should know me better than that! I just recognise that it isn't the easy gravy train that many people believe it to be and I personally would not give up so much of my private life to do that job. Remember this is coming from someone who is self-employed!!

Some do go into it for the perks but they get found out eventually, just the same as poor quality Councillors.

I don't think that most educated people believe that being an MP or a councillor is a gravy train. (except maybe in 'the village')

In any case it is not a relevant argument for why so many of our MP's are moneygrabbing sleazebags, it's in the job description that they will be scrutinised by and answerable to Joe Public 24/7 x 52, it's also in the job description that the pay for this is £60000...if you are not prepared to do it...don't stand for election!

[Boeing Guy]

MP's have it tough..... They arn't these guys are they?


Seriously though, I used to work abroad, I did not get any allowances towards a second house, expenses. Etc etc. pensions etc.
And as to long working hours.....

Sadly I am in full agreement with Dave here, I am sure many of our serving armed forces would love the cushy jobs MP's have.

How anyone can defend their pay, is beyond me, you should want to serve, that means sacrifice, it's not all about money.

[Eric]

Back in the day, MPs weren't paid. The problem with this system is so obvious ... well, if it's so obvious I won't bother to explain it Initially, MPs were paid in order to attract capable men (well, back in those days women were kept in their place) who otherwise would not be able to become members. This basically sound idea has mutated horrendously. Perks and allowances should go. Increase the flat salary (though not by too much) and cut out the peripheral shiite. And if this salary is not enough to attract the "best" people from the private sector, so what. It was many of these "'best' people", particulary in the finnancial sector, whose crookedness and inefficiency caused the recent recession. They obviously couldn't run an orgy in a whorehouse; so why should they be any better at running a country?

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Guinness

I'm not paid enough, and I'll say it again, I'm not paid enough. Pensioners who have put in the pot all their lives aren't paid enough, many professions aren't paid enough.

The government is banging on about austerity, and, whilst the majority of the plebs understand the need for this and try to cut their cloth accordingly, accepting little or no pay rises year on year, the bottom feeding non producers in Westminster just look for ways to feather their own nests laughing all the way to the bank and thumbing their noses at the general public.

These people are in a position of ultimate trust....and time after time after time they break that trust, instead of looking to help the people they represent they look for ways to make as much money as they can via loopholes in laws that they have helped create.

Pigs feeding at the trough

There is one person who thinks that pensioners are a drain on society....and he thinks we should all be doing community work to 'put something back'.

I am busier now than when I was working.......I look out for my elderly mother.....we shop for some of our older neighbours.....I cook for them too(at no cost to them)....I look after my daughters two children so that she can go out to work...is that enough or should I be volunteering to do more?
I don't want any medals and I do not advertise this to get any kind of sympathy,(I do it because I can) but just to show that retired people all around the country are in the same position...sandwiched between elderly parents and their children.

Outrage as former head of benefits agency Lord Bichard says the retired should take up community service or have their pensions docked - Home News - UK - The Independent

above is a link to the story.
If anyone wants this man's e-mail address to write their thoughts to him PM me and I will give it to you.

Oh and I should have said that this man retired at 53 on a pension of 120K per year. So he knows what it is like to rough it.

[MargaretR]

Retirement age in UK is 68, see
Retirement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

..the highest in the chart.

This is on the basis that 'people are living longer', but are they really?
As a 69yr old oldie I look at the obituaries.
There are some who have reached their 80s and 90s, but they had the advantage of eating healthy food in their childhood and their prime.

The instances of people dying before reaching 70 is increasing, so the numbers who are likely never to live long enough to ever draw any pension is on the rise. The ones that do survive into their 70s are unlikely to be fit enough to work.

The government claim that we are facing a time when a large percentage of the population will be retired (over 68). I dispute this, because they're making a determined effort to ensure that the majority won't live that long.

[Guinness]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

There is one person who thinks that pensioners are a drain on society....and he thinks we should all be doing community work to 'put something back'.

I am busier now than when I was working.......I look out for my elderly mother.....we shop for some of our older neighbours.....I cook for them too(at no cost to them)....I look after my daughters two children so that she can go out to work...is that enough or should I be volunteering to do more?
I don't want any medals and I do not advertise this to get any kind of sympathy,(I do it because I can) but just to show that retired people all around the country are in the same position...sandwiched between elderly parents and their children.

Outrage as former head of benefits agency Lord Bichard says the retired should take up community service or have their pensions docked - Home News - UK - The Independent

above is a link to the story.
If anyone wants this man's e-mail address to write their thoughts to him PM me and I will give it to you.

Oh and I should have said that this man retired at 53 on a pension of 120K per year. So he knows what it is like to rough it.

And no doubt he'll soon be advocating sending 7 year olds up chimneys so that they can contribute to a 'civil society' too...

[Gordon Booth]

Originally Posted by Guinness

And no doubt he'll soon be advocating sending 7 year olds up chimneys so that they can contribute to a 'civil society' too...

Well the sooner they start saving up for their university fees the better!

[Guinness]

Wonder if our local MP would like to jump to the defence of one of his own? The member for Halifax, one Linda Riordan, who likes to think she is a hard left socialist

In addition to her wage, she employs her partner at £42500 (paid by the taxpayer). She rents out her London home to another MP for £1560 (paid by the taxpayer) whilst paying the mortgage on said property of £500 (paid by her). She herself rents another property in London for £1473 (paid by the taxpayer)

For this she has spoken in parliament a grand total of 23 times, well below average for an MP and been pretty much below average at everything else related to her job, according to the highly regarded theyworkforyou website.

Interesting to note though, that she has never voted on having a more transparent parliament.....I wonder why

[Eric]

Originally Posted by Guinness

Wonder if our local MP would like to jump to the defence of one of his own? The member for Halifax, one Linda Riordan, who likes to think she is a hard left socialist

In addition to her wage, she employs her partner at £42500 (paid by the taxpayer). She rents out her London home to another MP for £1560 (paid by the taxpayer) whilst paying the mortgage on said property of £500 (paid by her). She herself rents another property in London for £1473 (paid by the taxpayer)

For this she has spoken in parliament a grand total of 23 times, well below average for an MP and been pretty much below average at everything else related to her job, according to the highly regarded theyworkforyou website.

Interesting to note though, that she has never voted on having a more transparent parliament.....I wonder why

I see from her website that she has been a trougher since '05; so, no doubt she will recieve a decent pension if she loses her seat in the next election. The question I have, and I hope someone (other than google) can provide the answer, is: Do UK MPs make contributions to their pension? And, if so, how much?