Here we go again

[Less]

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany

Really, try telling that to the Infantryman patrolling in Nar-e-saraj & living in a mud hut compound.



So, try again to convince me that politicians are value for money.

Won't quote the whole thread, though it was worthwhile.

However, I must pull you up so far as your attitude, I feel that one M.P. is worth maybe, 1,000 perhaps even 10,000 of our servicemen/women, in fact at the next major Conflict that they consider Morally correct, they should be prepared to do the fighting, we'll keep the troops at home on low pay, nobody is worth sacrificing at the whim of a politician.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by ToffeeGuy

The simple fact is, and it is a difficult one for most taxpayers to swallow, that MPs aren't paid enough. I'll say that again, they aren't paid enough......

I agree with you, compare the salary of our MP and the senior officers at Hyndburn and I am sure you will find our MP is on less money.

Our MP is also paid less than many of the managers where I work.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

So a salary of £60,000 +, plus generous (legitimate) expenses, plus the sort of pension fund most of us can only dream of isn't enough? Not only that, their work load has actually gone down over the years as they hand more and more of our sovereign powers over to the corrupt, unaccountable EU that you love so much.

Nice try at a wind-up but I'm not biting!

What are you basing that decision on, is it on what you earn or what people in senior positions in the private sector earn?

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

Local politics has undergone the same reformation and if you look at the expenses claims being made by certain Councillors over the years you can see who is only taking what they are due and those 'who have to live'.

Members' Allowances

I have stated before that I don't think local Councillors get enough for what they do - well the good ones that do a lot for Hyndburn don't get enough. As in all 'professions' there are those that do more than others.

From what I here Ken you are one of the good ones that is always busy trying to help people and make the place better

(yeah yeah I know, there is a little brown mark on my nose )

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Guinness

...In addition to her wage, she employs her partner at £42500 (paid by the taxpayer). She rents out her London home to another MP for £1560 (paid by the taxpayer) whilst paying the mortgage on said property of £500 (paid by her). She herself rents another property in London for £1473 (paid by the taxpayer)
.....

I do not agree with employing a partner or family member.

The fiddle with the house rents is just that and should be stopped.

[Judith Addison]

As a local councillor I would say that no politician, national or local, should be using the allowance or expenses system to their own advantage. We should all be honourable people whose conduct is above board. At Hyndburn I feel that the allowance system is proportionate to councillors' responsibilities. Leaders, cabinet members, chairs of committees, etc. are entitled to draw higher allowances for the work they do and the level of responsibility they have. Until my mother died a few months ago I had to claim carer's allowance when I went to full Council meeting as she couldn't be left on her own in an evening. However, the allowance only partially covered the cost of a Crossroads carer. I don't think councillors should be out of pocket for the work they do.

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by Barrie Yates

If that is so why did he meekly follow the party line on the referendum vote?
Did he change his mind of his own free will or did he take into account that his political would have been severely damaged by going against Milliband - in other words "Screw the people that elected me, better for my wallet if I follow my leaders instructions.

Since those who voted against are still in government I don't think that Graham was under sentence of death somehow. It really isn't for me to speak on his behalf so I'm not going to.

If he wasn't so universally lambasted for the EU vote (without asking him directly) then maybe he would use this forum more often?

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Judith Addison

As a local councillor I would say that no politician, national or local, should be using the allowance or expenses system to their own advantage. We should all be honourable people whose conduct is above board. At Hyndburn I feel that the allowance system is proportionate to councillors' responsibilities. Leaders, cabinet members, chairs of committees, etc. are entitled to draw higher allowances for the work they do and the level of responsibility they have. Until my mother died a few months ago I had to claim carer's allowance when I went to full Council meeting as she couldn't be left on her own in an evening. However, the allowance only partially covered the cost of a Crossroads carer. I don't think councillors should be out of pocket for the work they do.

No way should any councillor be a cent out of pocket fer any work they do in my eyes,also aware that some are, n that don't sit well wi me, Martyrs should be consigned to history.

[Guinness]

Originally Posted by Judith Addison

As a local councillor I would say that no politician, national or local, should be using the allowance or expenses system to their own advantage. We should all be honourable people whose conduct is above board. At Hyndburn I feel that the allowance system is proportionate to councillors' responsibilities. Leaders, cabinet members, chairs of committees, etc. are entitled to draw higher allowances for the work they do and the level of responsibility they have. Until my mother died a few months ago I had to claim carer's allowance when I went to full Council meeting as she couldn't be left on her own in an evening. However, the allowance only partially covered the cost of a Crossroads carer. I don't think councillors should be out of pocket for the work they do.

Maybe you should have written to the leader of your party. He's intent on slashing benefits to people who need care. I think the Independent Living Fund is the next to go.

Surely your late mother would have been on some sort of care benefit like SDA or DLA which is supposed to pay for all her extra care needs. I'm not too well up on this but if she was receiving help from the state to help pay for her care shouldn't she have paid for this herself whilst you were on council business instead of you paying and then claiming from expenses.

Honestly not having a go here, and fair play to you for sticking your head above the parapet. you should most definitely not be out of pocket but isn't that why you get a basic allowance, just trying to get my head round who and what is supposed to pay for who and what.

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by cashman

No way should any councillor be a cent out of pocket fer any work they do in my eyes,also aware that some are, n that don't sit well wi me, Martyrs should be consigned to history.

Good of you to say that, thank you. However, none of us are out of pocket for the work we do up at the Council although technically on occasion I suppose I (and others too) have worked for less than the minimum wage. This is a personal choice and I have never felt obliged to do more than I am being paid for by members of the Cabinet.

I have said it before about being a Councillor but to be anywhere near good at representing your community you really have to want to do it and those who just see it as easy four-year ego boost rarely seem to see it beyond a first term. Waving the flag only at election time is now clearly seen for what it is by the public and a good thing too because it whittles out the chaff.

I remain convinced that the majority of Councillors go into politics for the best of reasons and know exactly what the job entails, it isn't always easy but it is immensely rewarding to try and make local life better. I am just over halfway into my first term now and would love to continue so I hope the public think I'm worthy of another crack at it in 2014.

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

Er, no. I'm not asking you to criticise Graham for having a pop at the Chancellor. I'm asking you was he wrong to have a pop at the Chancellor, but, as far as I'm aware, not to criticise Labour politicians for their money grubbing tactics which seem to be against the spirit of the expenses system which are still occurring in this present Parliament. And don't give me the old politicians' stand by of "I can't comment on what I don't know about"...it's easy enough to find out in a matter of minutes, thanks to the wonders of the internet. Sadly, I don't think we're ever going to get a straight answer from you.

It is very rare for people to have a serious dig at their own side so while I take your point I don't think it is anything of a surprise to anyone. I think the nearest analogy would be along the lines of a football team laying into one of their own in an interview for missing a penalty or something.

That's a bit of a clumsy simile but I think you get my point.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

Good of you to say that, thank you. However, none of us are out of pocket for the work we do up at the Council although technically on occasion I suppose I (and others too) have worked for less than the minimum wage. This is a personal choice and I have never felt obliged to do more than I am being paid for by members of the Cabinet.
.

Not good of me at all Ken, I look at life pretty simple, its a matter of Right @ Wrong.

[Margaret Pilkington]

What many peole fail to realise is that there is a huge difference between local politics and national politics....much of the difference is to do with scale and ego's.
What I mean by that( and you have referred to it yourself Ken) is that the ego trip of being a local councillor is nothing like that of being an MP(although in my book, an MP is the servant of his constituents rather than the banner he stands under - constituents should always be his/her first priority)...you will always get some people who are in it for what they can do for themselves, but this is less evident in Local politics....and the expenses of national politics are bigger so, again open to abuse by those unscrupulous ones.

In both situations we have the power in our hands.......Know who you are giving your vote to..if you don't like the things they have been up to, then don't vote for them.

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

What many peole fail to realise is that there is a huge difference between local politics and national politics....much of the difference is to do with scale and ego's.
What I mean by that( and you have referred to it yourself Ken) is that the ego trip of being a local councillor is nothing like that of being an MP(although in my book, an MP is the servant of his constituents rather than the banner he stands under - constituents should always be his/her first priority)...you will always get some people who are in it for what they can do for themselves, but this is less evident in Local politics....and the expenses of national politics are bigger so, again open to abuse by those unscrupulous ones.

In both situations we have the power in our hands.......Know who you are giving your vote to..if you don't like the things they have been up to, then don't vote for them.

Eloquently put, as always.

I think what I should have been more clear about is that being an MP is very much a full time job and every waking hour becomes devoted to community work. Although this is largely true of Councillors it is not a salary that you could hope to live off solely and you do at least get to go home every night and switch off when you want to. This is not true of an MP and your life is very much not your own anymore. You put your life on hold for five years and pray that you keep getting re-elected or else you really are back to the dole queue. In the wake of recent expenses scandals and the public demanding to know what their representatives are getting out of them this is much harder now, I feel.

Essentially, for a continued life as an MP these days you really have to prove your worth.

[Wynonie Harris]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

It is very rare for people to have a serious dig at their own side so while I take your point I don't think it is anything of a surprise to anyone. I think the nearest analogy would be along the lines of a football team laying into one of their own in an interview for missing a penalty or something.

That's a bit of a clumsy simile but I think you get my point.

OK, fair enough, Ken, so you won't criticize Graham due to party loyalty. I can understand that. However, for those of us who owe no allegiance to any party I'm sure you can see how it rings somewhat hollow when a politician is having a pop at an opposition politico whilst people in his own party are doing similar things. It tends to add to our already somewhat jaundiced view of politicos on all sides!