Hospitals

[accymel]

You just wanna see those nurses dont ya Dazza????

[dazzalam]

pay per view lol

[accymel]

One way to increease funds for NHS i'suppose LOL

[dazzalam]

maybe we should email Patricia Hewitt with our suggestions lol

[Margaret Pilkington]

The management structure when Matrons were in charge was VASTLY different......the Government have brought in what they call 'Modern Matrons'......this is just a bit of window dressing because the general population think that hospitals were run better when Matrons were in place.......so the government decreed that Matrons should return, but in truth they have very little in the way of real power.

Everything Lettie says is true...... and a lot of the fault lies with political tinkering that doesn't address the real problems.......changes in the Education system of training Nurses.......there used to be droves of students on the wards......and believe me a lot of the work those students did was cleaning....... and you did it with a good heart and you did it well because the next patient to use whatever it was you were cleaning could be one of your own family. Students are educated in Universities now and do not want to know about the menial tasks....... they might be menial but they are important.

I can recall being a student and we were never anything other than busy......if not with patients then we were allocated a tin of Chemico and sent to the sluice to clean and shine the stainless steel bedpans.....and sputum pots......OK today those are made of paper and are much more hygienic.....but what I'm getting at is that the problems within the NHS are down to lack of manpower where the patients are.......to few people with too much to do......too much paperwork and red tape.......too many targets set by people who don't know what they are talking about........all the high powered managers in the world will not improve the situation...........and these are the folk who are getting the chunky paypackets......not the nurses. And this all brought about by political spin.

[dazzalam]

[QUOTE=Margaret Pilkington]The management structure when Matrons were in charge was VASTLY different......the Government have brought in what they call 'Modern Matrons'......this is just a bit of window dressing because the general population think that hospitals were run better when Matrons were in place.......QUOTE]

but did they make a differance that was my question as I said I am to young to have an opinion and you obviously know what your on about, so in your opinion did matrons make the differance?

[SPUGGIE J]

Say one thing for this thread I have learned something from Margret and lettie and that is scary. All that info at the hospital get rid of it and ask the old hands (not meant as an insult ladies)

[lettie]

I am also too young to remember Matron. She had already been replaced by managers when I started in 1987. Matron used to run the practical side of the hospital. She would do inspections on the wards and was in charge of most things including things like laundry and cleaning. The ward sister ran her own ward and was answerable to matron. If matron thought that a ward was dirty, she would shut it down, give everybody a kick in the pants and get it cleaned up.

Modern matrons have nowhere near that kind of power, they are nurse managers retitled to include the word matron in order to try and reassure the public. Their main job these days is to juggle with the staff numbers to try and staff the shifts on the wards. Some of them do get involved with the patient care but that is because they sometimes have no choice. There are too few staff on shifts to adequately do all of the jobs, so they sometimes have to muck in. They try to work to their targets, ie, how much money can we save this year??? They listen to the staff complaining and take their grievences higher, but never get anywhere.

I would not have a modern matron job for all the tea in China. It's not worth the flack. When you've trained as a nurse or midwife, gained experience and risen through the ranks, to be constantly moaned at by your colleagues, it must be a hell of a job. Believe me the staff moans are justified. If any one of you found yourself doing an 11 hour night shift and had no tea break because it was too busy and there was nobody there to cover you, would you not moan?

These working conditions are a daily occurrence within the NHS. Nursing staff are tired and demoralised so therefore there are high levels of sickness amongst staff, which adds to the problem.

[SPUGGIE J]

There is too much red tape and rules that have no benifit for the patient especially if staff are running round after a set of targets. Govenment seems determined to bury everyone under paperwork and then has the gaul to moan because targets arent met. Yet these people are the problem so if the Hattie Jakeus matron returns lets send a few to parliment to orginise them.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Thanks Lettie, very eloquently put.
Oh, and by the way......I don't remember Matrons either, but I did work with nurses who did and the tales they told would make your hair curl......there was one Matron at Queens Park who used to be accompanied on her rounds by a little white highland terrier called JOCK.......cross my heart!

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

...there was one Matron at Queens Park who used to be accompanied on her rounds by a little white highland terrier called JOCK....

And these matrons made sure the wards were clean. Very hygenic, a dog with p***y paws walking around.

[Margaret Pilkington]

It WAS a long time ago Neil.......and that particular Matron ruled with a rod of iron....or so I'm told........the nurses who knew her would poop their pants if they were sent for by her.
And I'm told that if you broke a thermometer you would have to take it to Matron and she would make sure that you were docked a shilling from your meagre earnings. Those were the good old, bad old days.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Originally Posted by lettie

If any one of you found yourself doing an 11 hour night shift and had no tea break because it was too busy and there was nobody there to cover you, would you not moan?

These working conditions are a daily occurrence within the NHS. Nursing staff are tired and demoralised so therefore there are high levels of sickness amongst staff, which adds to the problem.

How on earth anyone can be expected to work efficiently when they must so obviously be tired working under those sort of conditions is beyond me.

Tired people are more likely to make mistakes. I know I do when I'm tired. You can't think as clearly and reaction times are slower.

We have rules about drinking and driving because judgemnt etc is impaired. There are also signs on motorways saying "Tiredness kills - take a break." and telling people to stop and take a nap. And yet here we have people in whose hands we place our lives and they are being overworked to the point where their judgment etc MUST be affected by tiredness.

It's crazy.

I have a personal hatred of paperwork and red tape since my days of filling in numerous "returns" which basically only repeated the same information instead of being able to get on with doing the job I as being paid for.

[Margaret Pilkington]

If I ruled the world..... these are the measures that I would implement to combat the spread of MRSA.

VISITING......would be strictly limited. Patients would be given 2 visiting cards for their visitors to use. These cards would have magnetic strips on them and would open the ward doors only at certain times. At all other times anyone coming to the ward would have to use the intercom system......this would have the beneficial spin off of allowing the staff to know exactly who was in their ward area.
No children under the age of 12 years would be allowed to visit....unless the patient was a close relative who was considered to be on deaths door.
Parents would have open visiting on childrens ward......but other relatives would have to stick to the regimented visiting times...and then only 2 visitors per bed.
There would be a visitors waiting area attached to each ward.
Patients would be discouraged from visiting the restaurant, and would only leave the ward for diagnostic procedures.....X-rays, scans etc.

Ward Cleanliness.......domestic cleaners would be allocated permanently to their own wards. This ensures the continuity in the cleaning process.
Two people would be employed on each ward to clean all equipment.....trolleys, drip stands, commodes, locker tops and surfaces......with hot soapy water....this would be done every day regardless of whether the equipment had been used or not....and these would not be ordinary cleaners......they would be part of the Control of Infection Team.....and their uniforms would identify them as such.
Carpets would be removed from ward areas.
The rolling process of laundering drapes and screens would have to be documented and audited regularly.
Wards would be closed in rotation for 'Fogging'...... this is a steam cleaning process with detergent in the steam.
All the ventilation systems would have to be checked for bacteria on a monthly basis......who is to say that the bacteria is not being spread through the air conditioning.

Other Measures.
Routine surgical admissions would either be checked at Pre-operative assessment clinic to make sure they are not a carrier of this organism......if this was to be too costly/would swamp lab services, then alternatively patients could be prescribed a weeks course of Aquasept Wash ......this to be used in accordance with instructions in the week prior to their admission.
Emergency admissions quarantined until swabs proved that they were not carrying the organism.
Foot operated door mechanisms.......door knobs are known to be vectors in the spread of infection.
Patients know to have MRSA.....barrier nursed......full gowns like they used to be covering the whole of the nurses uniform.......not the silly plastic aprons......are the bugs just going to land on the plastic apron.....I don't think so!

Nurses to wear uniform in hospital only.....proper change facilities and time to change given.
If a uniform is contaminated then the nurse should change into a clean one immediately.......a central store of uniforms should be kept for such occasions.
Handwashing.....everyone, staff and visitors to wash their hands and DRY them properly......hand that are not properly dry might just as well never have been washed.
If a ward has an apparently high rate of infections then the staff should be required to give swabs.....if these prove positive then the staff go off duty until they are cleared.....when I first started in nursing this was one of the role of Occupational Health Dept.

All of these measures would come at a cost......and some will observe that it will reduce the ability of the hospital to meet its targets......and therefore may be seen as impractical, but how important is it that this bug is beaten...?

[Tealeaf]

Just out of interest, the standard procedure in Dutch & German hospitals is that upon a patients vacation or discharge, the entire hospital bed plus adjacent clinical equipment |(ventilators, etc) are taken away for sterilization and cleaning and 'fresh' beds & equipment are brought in from stock.