How?

[Ber999T]

just let me say that if any muslims who hold british passports by being born here or have got them through marrage or been granted citizenship and they want to go and "fight" the aggressors of Islam (i.e. our troops) then they sohuld have to hand in their BRITISH passport and lose citizenship, and all of the rights that is allowed (i.e. FREE treatment on NHS etc) of this country and not allowed to return unless they are willing to be tried for TREASON and NOT complaining IF found guilty and jailed for life or DEPORTED. Bring on the ID Cards and lets see if that will help make th UK a safe place to live, travel and work in.

[MUMMIBOO]

Originally Posted by Ber999T

just let me say that if any muslims who hold british passports by being born here or have got them through marrage or been granted citizenship and they want to go and "fight" the aggressors of Islam (i.e. our troops) then they sohuld have to hand in their BRITISH passport and lose citizenship, and all of the rights that is allowed (i.e. FREE treatment on NHS etc) of this country and not allowed to return unless they are willing to be tried for TREASON and NOT complaining IF found guilty and jailed for life or DEPORTED. Bring on the ID Cards and lets see if that will help make th UK a safe place to live, travel and work in.

I have to say that this is the view of alot of people i know sad though it may sound.

It's not very nice when every time i see a muslim dressed with a beard and in all his praying gear on it makes me VERY nervous, its not nice and it should'nt have to be like that!

I dont class myself as racist but i do find it strange the way they are allowed to live as if they are still in their own country following their own ways of life but in our country Eg:

they build mosques here but we would never be allowed to build a church in their country and you see the signs now in shops to take off your helmet when coming Friend or Foe we dont know but yet the women can walk around in an outfit where you can only see their eyes? It just dont make sence.

If they want to live as if they were in there own country following their own rules in their tight nit communitys then they might as well go back on their own land and do it.

I know that all sounded a bit harsh but thats the way i feel at the moment i know its a minority that has caused the bombings but then you get type cast i cant look at any of them and know for sure they are not going to blow me up!!

I know there are good and bad amongst us all and i dont mean to be rude or offensive but its just when people are doing the evil things they are doing.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Try to see it from a muslim point of view. Muslims are horrified that such atrocities can be conducted in the name of Islam. These suicide bombers are not the typical muslim. It's like seeing all white Christians as IRA bombers. Not all Christians are Catholics and not all Catholics are Irish and not all Irish Catholics are IRA bombers. It's the same with Muslims.

I may lose karma points for this but I feel for the families who are reeling in shock and horror to have learned that their son/husband/brother was behind one of the bombings. These people grew up in this country and for most of their lives appeared to "conform" more to the western way of life than their parents did/do.

These men spoke English with Yorkshire accents. They were born here. They went to school here. Somewhere along the lines they were misguided by extremists and ended up believing that dying in a suicide bomb was a noble thing to do.

I spoke to someone yesterday who said she was afraid to sit near a muslim on a train and I said I had just come up from town on a bus sitting next to a muslim guy who lives down the road and I don't see him any diffrently today than I did last week before the bombings. Her reply to that was "That's different. You are talking about someone you know." But these suicide bombers were "someone people knew". They were ordinary people, living very ordinary lives.

What I'm trying to say is that it isn't people who are "different". These guys were far less different than a non-English speaking robes wearing person who you may see as not fitting in with our way of life.

One of the great things about this country is our freedom which includes freedom of religion. It doesn't worry me that across the road from my church there is a mosque. We have a pretty good relationship with the mosque. When we've not been using our car park and they need extra parking space we have let them use it. Why not? Co-operation and understanding is what we need. We might need the extra parking spac ourselves one day and ask them for a loan of a bit of theirs.

I know I've grumbled about having to bend over backwards to please others but I don't think it's actually the immigrant population who make demands so much as the PC brigade who presume things. Like the idea that celebrating Christmas offends muslims. it doesn't offend any muslims I know. The local PO is owned by muslims and they have a lovely selection of Christmas cards at Christmas. I got some of my nicest ones fom there. They put decorations up and wish people "merry Christmas". We get Christmas cards from muslim friends.

Yesterday I attended a school leavers assembly at Springhill CP where my youngest daughter attends. (She leaves this year). The majority of pupils there are muslim. ALL the children, brown, white, pink and yellow stood proudly together to sing "We are the young" and it brought a lump to many throats and a tear to many eyes. I live in hope that the future will be safe in their hands and that we have taught them well enough to give them the strength to make it so.

I can see the objection some people have to the "severe" form of muslim dress where a woman is totally covered apart from her eyes and I can see where this may lead to fear and suspicion but I can also understand what it means to someone to have a deep religious conviction about a dress code. I'm LDS and we have a dress code, not as severe and not all members adhere to it (just as all muslim women don't wear the total outfit) but those who do and to whom it means a lot would rather suffer almost anything than compromise that. To others that may not make any sense at all but it helps me understand where those muslims are coming from even if I don't share their beliefs.

I hope that we can all grow stronger together and work together to eliminate this evil from our midst because we all suffer because of it.

I have just read in the paper an article by a muslim leader declaring that the bombers have sullied the name of Islam and that they have no right to claim it as their religion. He isn't the only one who feels that way. They have the same commandments which include "thou shalt not kill" It's amazing that throughout history people of Jewish, Christian and Islamic religions have found excuses to disobey that commandment and even convince themselves that they have God's blessing.

To quote Bob Dylan "I cannot think for you, you will have to decide, whether Judas Iscariot had God on HIS side"

Ooops, well there's my political speech for the day.

[cashman]

i travel through customs 3 or 4 times a year and it is at least 2 years since there was anyone on duty when we came through,theres something wrong with a system that allows this to happen. i'm talking about the exits when you have collected your cases from the carosel,i have seen someone in the RED exit,but no-one in the green or blue,that makes me worry a bit,so i must agree with margaret about border controls being poor,this is slightly differant i know-but the scenario is the same.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Last time we came through there wasn't anyone on green OR red.

[harwood red]

Willow I agree with everything you have put in your post and far from taking Karma I couldn't give some (karma that is!!) quick enough, well done!

[WillowTheWhisp]

Thank you harwood red, but as I guessed someone else didn't agree with you and I and has deducted karma points from me, I wonder if whoever did that would care to put forward their point of view?

[harwood red]

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

Thank you harwood red, but as I guessed someone else didn't agree with you and I and has deducted karma points from me, I wonder if whoever did that would care to put forward their point of view?

cowards that's why. Did they give a reason why if not a name??

[WillowTheWhisp]

Well if you can call this a reason:

You guessed correct you lose points

[harwood red]

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

Well if you can call this a reason:

Idiotic coward, go on take some of me now!!!!

[Ber999T]

Hi folks and willow i agree with your sentiments entirly, i was at work (as now) and dont always have time to do full posts.

Am not sure what your on about with Karma points (not looked at site enough yet) but if i can give you any i would like to know how to give some to you.

Yes we have a diverse community both local and national and for most of the time we live and respect each others way of thinking and life and i hope that will continue, may workload is bad enough without having to deal with racial/regelious fallings out.

I feel sorry for the friends and families of these men who blew themselves up just as i feel sorry for the friends and families of the people who died through their actions. let us just hope that this is the last time anything like this happens (but i doubt it looking on news arson attacks on mosque somewhere).

[WillowTheWhisp]

To the person who deducted karma points from me for this thread with the statement "all religion should be banned" I would like to say that I am sorry you feel that way but how pathetic to deduct karma points from me for post #18 in this thread and give that for the reason.

Earlier today Mez was telling me what a great bunch of people AccyWebbers are and how glad people are that they attend the "get togethers" when they do.

It would appear that not all AccyWebbers are such great people.

By all means choose not to follow any religion at all if you so wish but you have no right to demand the imposition of a religion ban on all humanity. Look what that has led to elsewhere.

I may not agree with some other people's religious views or way of life but I would defend their right to have those views and to live that way provided that by doing so it harms no-one.

BY all means choose not to follow any religion yourself but you have no right to demand a ban on all religion just because you don't believe in anything. I have no objection to you not wanting to believe in anything but I have very strong objections to your wish to ban my beliefs or those of anyone else.

As for you feeling that your viewpoint is justification for the deduction of karma points all I can say is that it's a pity you didn't post your opinion in the thread so that you could have had your karma adjusted accordingly by those who disagree with you.

[Bagpuss]

Must have missed this thread and just caught up with it, all I can add is when we had the two minutes silence at work last week a small group of muslims went out of their way to spoil the silence, they said it was their right to do so, would anyone of you like to defend that point of view to me.

[WillowTheWhisp]

In that case they were showing disrespect to all who died, including a muslim woman.

There were also muslims who did share in the two minutes silence, and non-muslims who didn't.

The people who didn't show respect by joining in and who went out of their way to point out to others that they felt they had every right not to do so sadly are the type of people who will perpetuate divisions in the community.

As I said earlier I hope that we can all work together to build a future but there will always be people who just don't want to co-operate with others for whatever selfish or misguided reason. It saddens me that there are such people but it's even evident in a small community like AccyWeb.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Originally Posted by Ber999T

just let me say that if any muslims who hold british passports by being born here or have got them through marrage or been granted citizenship and they want to go and "fight" the aggressors of Islam (i.e. our troops) then they sohuld have to hand in their BRITISH passport and lose citizenship, and all of the rights that is allowed (i.e. FREE treatment on NHS etc) of this country and not allowed to return unless they are willing to be tried for TREASON and NOT complaining IF found guilty and jailed for life or DEPORTED. Bring on the ID Cards and lets see if that will help make th UK a safe place to live, travel and work in.

I don't know that ID cards wowuld work in these circumstances but deportation seems such an obvious option for anyone who is outspoken against this country and inciting others to acts of violence. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be aviable option because the European courts intervene and when this country has tried to deport someone we've been stopped because it interferes with their human rights! That's ludicrous.

I also think that it should be pointed out to anyone wishing to leave this country to visit a country which is known to encourage suicide bombers and train peopl to attack from within that by all means they may choose to go, just so long as they realise that once they've gone they will not be allowed to return here again - ever. Of course the European courts would only stick an unwelcome oar in there again but I think we need to be able to stand up for ourselves and protect ourselves.

It may seem a small drop in the ocean but it's where these things seem to start.