How are the mighty fallen

[Acrylic-bob]

I read this in the Telegraph this morning and was apalled.

Britain had to plead with US to take part in Iran flotilla - Telegraph

How low have we sunk? 70 years ago Britannia still, just about, ruled the waves. And now...?

[Wynonie Harris]

Telling, that we meekly accepted the decision, then after the French insisted that they had to take part, we suddenly decided that we had to be in on it, too.

Telling, but typical of a country which is now viewed largely with contempt throughout the world. A country which is slipping deeper into debt, but still insists on doling out foreign aid to countries that don't even need it, just so that Tory ministers can prove their caring, sharing credentials to the liberal elite.

Telling, but typical of a country which is about to let a dangerous terrorist onto its streets, because politicians are more concerned about bowing to the wishes of a European insistitution, rather than protecting their own people.

Pathetic...utterly pathetic.

[accyman]

but how do we show our anger ?

if we vote against the governement at the elections our alterative is all in favour of been shafted by the EU and any lib dem worth its salt woudl have us sign away even more if not everything to the EU

hopefully UKIP will put a candidate forward next general election so we can show the current shower of crap we arnt happy with what they are doing.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by accyman

but how do we show our anger ?

if we vote against the governement at the elections our alterative is all in favour of been shafted by the EU and any lib dem worth its salt woudl have us sign away even more if not everything to the EU

hopefully UKIP will put a candidate forward next general election so we can show the current shower of crap we arnt happy with what they are doing.

Doesn't matter who runs the country if you haven't got the money and your up to your neck in debt, you can't spend money on anything that is unless your name is Brown that isThe problem with UKIP is they're a one trick poney

[yerself]

Originally Posted by jaysay

Doesn't matter who runs the country if you haven't got the money and your up to your neck in debt, you can't spend money on anything that is unless your name is Brown

So where's Cameron getting the money for all this foreign aid he's dishing out to countries that either don't want it or don't need it?

[cashman]

Originally Posted by jaysay

Doesn't matter who runs the country if you haven't got the money and your up to your neck in debt, you can't spend money on anything that is unless your name is Brown that isThe problem with UKIP is they're a one trick poney

Well i would actually vote again if a UKIP candidate stood, The simple fact is- If enough people did that then the main ones would certainly have to get there asses in gear, not rocket science. we all know UKIP would never win n election, but that aint the point.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by cashman

Well i would actually vote again if a UKIP candidate stood, The simple fact is- If enough people did that then the main ones would certainly have to get there asses in gear, not rocket science. we all know UKIP would never win n election, but that ain't the point.

Ya but that is the point cashy, since when has voting for a party who don't stand a snowballs of gaining power, ever bothered to big two, it hasn't even bothered the lib dems either, whats happening is more and more people are not voting at all which is the real tragedy

[cashman]

Originally Posted by jaysay

Ya but that is the point cashy, since when has voting for a party who don't stand a snowballs of gaining power, ever bothered to big two, it hasn't even bothered the lib dems either, whats happening is more and more people are not voting at all which is the real tragedy

It aint bothered em,simply cos too many are too dim to vote fer one of the smaller ones, n aint got the wit to see the probable repercussions fer the big 2. And yeh have just proved me point. P.M.S.L.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by cashman

It aint bothered em,simply cos too many are too dim to vote fer one of the smaller ones, n aint got the wit to see the probable repercussions fer the big 2. And yeh have just proved me point. P.M.S.L.

I think the problem is lots of people don't no who politicians are. Alexander Armstrong was on breakfast TV talking about his game show Pointless, and he said one question was name a labour cabinet minister between 1997 and 2010 somebody answered Ken Clarke and only 2 out of a hundred mentioned Alistair Darling, with just over half saying Gordon Brown, seems like what goes on in the wonderful world of westminster doesn't float a lot of peoples boats in this country

[Margaret Pilkington]

That is a huge part of the problem....disaffected, disillusioned voters. Voting appears to be a pointless pursuit, because the politicians say one thing when they want to be elected, and once they are elected say something entirely different.
I think the only way would be for every person in the country to withold their vote to let the parties know how we feel about their lying ways. It won't ever happen.
All the politicians are cut from the same crap bit of cloth.......there is no difference in any of them.

[Wynonie Harris]

Originally Posted by jaysay

The problem with UKIP is they're a one trick poney

The same thing you always say when the question of UKIP comes up. The fact is, whether you agree with them or not, UKIP have a full range of policies, one of which is this:

· Scrap the misconceived Human Rights Act. This will make Britain safer by removing obstacles that prevent the deportation of dangerous Imams, terror suspects and criminals to countries where they are wanted for trial. This policy is in line with the UK’s current prisoner exchange and extradition treaties. UKIP will also halt European moves to give prisoners the vote

Quite a contrast to your gutless, ineffectual lot, isn't it?

The problem in this country, Jay, is, I'm sad to say, people like YOU. The one who take the "I've voted Tory/Labour all my life and I'm not changing now" attitude. Obviously, UKIP are not going to get into power, but if more voters thought "out of the box" and there was a huge protest vote, it would hit the big parties right where it hurt - in the ballot box - and it just might concentrate their minds on giving us what WE want for a change!

[accyman]

Originally Posted by jaysay

Ya but that is the point cashy, since when has voting for a party who don't stand a snowballs of gaining power, ever bothered to big two, it hasn't even bothered the lib dems either, whats happening is more and more people are not voting at all which is the real tragedy

well i suppose if a UKIP candidate stood and won it would put our current MP out of a job and out of a position to screw us over by saying one thing and voting another

[Eric]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

That is a huge part of the problem....disaffected, disillusioned voters. Voting appears to be a pointless pursuit, because the politicians say one thing when they want to be elected, and once they are elected say something entirely different.
I think the only way would be for every person in the country to withold their vote to let the parties know how we feel about their lying ways. It won't ever happen.
All the politicians are cut from the same crap bit of cloth.......there is no difference in any of them.

You are dead right ... and what you say applies to all the Western Democracies, particularly the US, whose lead the UK seems to be following in many things.

It seems to me that one can apply this to the arguments of those who wish to move from a constitutional monarchy to a republic. One of the main bitches of folk on here is that elected politicians don't listen once elected. Does one then want another elected official who won't listen? Seems like having a head of state who stays out of politics and who is controlled by numerous pieces of government legislation dating back to the seventeenth century is a workable solution. It works well in the UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Japan etc. These all seem like pretty stable countries. Sure the monarch is head of state for life, but there is, and has been no shortage of "Presidents for life": Duvalier, Assad, Mubarak, the loony toone in N. Korea, etc. Think I prefer Elizabeth Windsor, Queen of Canada.

Back on topic: as long ago as 1945 ... the year of my birth ... Churchill had to do a lot of persuading to get the US to allow a Royal Navy presence in the Pacific. Ah well, "Far-called, our navies melt away .... "

One can also make and argue the point that there would have been no catastrophic US economic collapse ... the one that dragged down much of the rest of the world ... if it had not been for the multi-trillion dollar US defence expenditure on the "War against Terror" Just how many Nimitz Class carriers do you need. And why does one need a large military force to face Iran? ... the Israelis will take care of them if necessary.

[DaveinGermany]

Originally Posted by cashman

If enough people did that then the main ones would certainly have to get there asses in gear,

Quite correct, a couple of years back there was all kinds of hand wringing, bleating & asking why when more votes went to the BNP if you remember. The talk then was of change & putting the public first & listening to what the voters want. But as always 6 months down the line they were all back to their old tricks, public opinion, ignored ..... again.

[davemac]

The turnout to vote whether its local, regional, or national has always been low in my lifetime. How many would vote if we gave out vouchers for £20 at the polling station ?

People dont even have to leave the house anymore, they can be issued with a postal vote and put it in the post box when passing.