How "bad off" are Americans?

[Flash]

Originally Posted by Bazf

So America, created the civil war, amazing that Bush represent's America and Americans, but Blair did it himself. No guilt that the brits are there, just Blair decided, so its the Americans fault.
When was parliament disbanded?

I think you'll find I went on to say that it is 'our' fault- of course Bush and Blair are culpable and of course they both have the blood of American and British soldiers on their hands. If they impression was that I was blaming the American people I apologise for that was not my intention.

[Flash]

[quote=Bazf;412935] Tony Blair does not have the overiding vote. Reading to much S*n and Daily Mail does cloud your judgement.

Two particular comments to make about this aspect of Bazf's response-

Tony Blair and George Bush are the democratically elected leaders of these twop nations- True. To suggest however that they do not have the overiding vote' is naieve in the etxreme. Not because it isnt factualy correct but because they do wield a sufficient amount of power and influence (along with their immediate aides) to enable them to manipulate the politiacal system in order to drive their agenda. Or do you beleive that they genuinely believed there were WOMD and were acting accordingly?

In regard to the comment about the Sun and Daily Mail- not really worthy of dignifying with a response- but on the other hand too patronising to ignore- I dont think I have ever actually even held a copy of these publications- I tell a lie I had a paper round when I was 11 so I have.

[Flash]

[quote=JohnW;412987]

Originally Posted by Flash

I think Bazf answered most of this very well indeed. The proceeds from any lucractive oil deals which may have been secured will take a very long time to pay off the cost of the war, if ever.

Do you honestly believe that the cost of the war is viewed as a negative by individuals in power (both in a political and industrial sense)? Revenue generated by armaments/supplies to service such a vast military campaign runs into billions- the people lining their pockets from these contracts have no concern for the long term cost to the taxpayer- why should they?- When the dust has settled the bank account will be fuller than ever before.

[bullseyebarb]

Very glad to have you back, John W. I've grown weary of the BDS crowd.

[SPUGGIE J]

BDS crowb?????????

[bullseyebarb]

Originally Posted by SPUGGIE J

BDS crowb?????????

Bush Derangement Syndrome.

[LancYorkYankee]

It's kinda too bad this thread turned into that sort of thing. My biggest objective was to show people that Americans have it awfully good. And the seeming fact that they don't look at many of the positives but just pick and choose some of the many ill that we do indeed have some struggles with. Overall, most things, taken in there entirety are pretty good over here. I for one, well I guess there are alot more than one, am very content with being an American. This despite her faults.

Brian

[bullseyebarb]

Originally Posted by LancYorkYankee

It's kinda too bad this thread turned into that sort of thing. My biggest objective was to show people that Americans have it awfully good.
Brian

Yes, indeed. Actually, I can't think of anyone I know who is a whiner. The people I associate with are positive, forward thinking, optimistic, hardworking, independent and generally delightful to be around. I consider myself to be most fortunate.

[Eric]

Originally Posted by JohnW

Well, would you care to expand on that and let us know which parts of the other paragraphs you don't agree with, and why? I always like to hear the other side of the argument.

It's not an argument ... And I haven't picked sides ... I intended it as a compliment to America and Americans. On the whole Iraqi question I agree, and this surprises even me, with the policy of the Canadian government. Even though Canada shares the longest undefended border in the world with the US, even tho' we are each others most important trading partners, even tho' the Blue Jays will win the series this year (had to throw this one in) Canada has always pursued an independent foreign policy. Sometimes close to America, as in the Reagan/Mulrooney days sometime a little farther away, as when Trudeau was our PM. (If you want a good Cuban cigar, come to Canada.) But on the whole we get along fine with our bigger neighbours. I just happened to point out, in a sort of indirect way, that I agree that America is a good and great country and that its heart is in the right place. George W will not be in power for much longer. And that will end much of the America bashing. It's not so long ago that Bill Clinton built up so much good will world wide to American and the American people. One of the things that W did successfully, maybe the only one, is squander much of that good will. And he is well on the way to dividing his own country.

[steeljack]

one or two comments on the original post

Maybe it is the ability to drive from the Pacific Ocean to the
Atlantic Ocean without having to present identification papers as
we move through each state?

Europeans have the ability to drive east to west from the Black Sea to the Atlantic Ocean, they can also drive from the 'toe' of Italy in the south to the Arctic ocean in the north of Finland , lots of different cultures to enjoy instead of the endless cookie cutter towns of the US


Or possibly it's the hundreds of clean
and safe motels we find along the way, where we find temporary shelter?

Maybe you have missed all the news reports of bed -bug infestations in New York City hotels, I understand San Francisco and L.A. Hotels are having the same problems

I guess having thousands of restaurants with varying cuisine from around the world is just not good enough.

Don't forget to mention that most of the employees are paid minimum wage, in some states even less than minimum wage since the Govt. says projected tips can be classed as part of the pay rate, and most of the food is either heart clogging fat or consists of some genetically modified ingredients

Or could it be that when we wreck our car, emergency workers show up and provide services to help all and even send a helicopter to take us to the hospital?

God hopes that you are lucky enough to have medical insurance, if you dont a hospitals only obligation is to provide BASIC life saving care, otherwise heres hoping you have enough funds available to pay the bill presented on discharge otherwise they will see you in court. A case now in the Californian courts...a Hospital is charged with dumping patients with mental problems on skid row when they were unable to pay.

Perhaps you are one of the 70% of Americans who own a home. You may be upset with knowing that in the unfortunate case of a fire, a group of trained firefighters will appear in moments and use top notch equipment to extinguish the flames. Thus they save you, your family and your belongings.

You mean like the Govt. came to the rescue when the folks of the Gulf coast needed help and still do after Katrina hit

Or if, while at home watching one of your many flat screen TVs, a burglar or prowler intrudes, an officer equipped with a gun and a bullet-proof vest will come to defend you and your family against attack or loss.

yep, this is why most families in the US feel its necessary to own a gun

This all in the backdrop of a neighborhood free of bombs or militias raping and pillaging the residents.

Apart from the World Trade center attack all recent terrorist attacks in the US were commited by homegrown US citizens (Unabomber/ Tim McVey )

This in neighborhoods where 90% of the teenagers own cell phones and computers.

And over 40% of students (high-school graduates) admitted to the California State University system have to do remedial math and english before starting class

How about the complete religious, social and political freedoms we enjoy that are the envy of everyone in the world?

Is this why we now have Spring Holiday instead of Easter and send Seasons Greetings cards instead of Christmas (Baby Jesus) cards , Christmas creches are banned but Menorahs are ok , oh I forgot to mention, we also have a President who WON the election with fewer votes than his opponent and led us into biggest overseas debacle since Napoleans march on Moscow in 1812

hardly surprising that the world has a negative view of us

[Eric]

Originally Posted by steeljack

one or two comments on the original post

Maybe it is the ability to drive from the Pacific Ocean to the
Atlantic Ocean without having to present identification papers as
we move through each state?

Europeans have the ability to drive east to west from the Black Sea to the Atlantic Ocean, they can also drive from the 'toe' of Italy in the south to the Arctic ocean in the north of Finland , lots of different cultures to enjoy instead of the endless cookie cutter towns of the US


Or possibly it's the hundreds of clean
and safe motels we find along the way, where we find temporary shelter?

Maybe you have missed all the news reports of bed -bug infestations in New York City hotels, I understand San Francisco and L.A. Hotels are having the same problems

I guess having thousands of restaurants with varying cuisine from around the world is just not good enough.

Don't forget to mention that most of the employees are paid minimum wage, in some states even less than minimum wage since the Govt. says projected tips can be classed as part of the pay rate, and most of the food is either heart clogging fat or consists of some genetically modified ingredients

Or could it be that when we wreck our car, emergency workers show up and provide services to help all and even send a helicopter to take us to the hospital?

God hopes that you are lucky enough to have medical insurance, if you dont a hospitals only obligation is to provide BASIC life saving care, otherwise heres hoping you have enough funds available to pay the bill presented on discharge otherwise they will see you in court. A case now in the Californian courts...a Hospital is charged with dumping patients with mental problems on skid row when they were unable to pay.

Perhaps you are one of the 70% of Americans who own a home. You may be upset with knowing that in the unfortunate case of a fire, a group of trained firefighters will appear in moments and use top notch equipment to extinguish the flames. Thus they save you, your family and your belongings.

You mean like the Govt. came to the rescue when the folks of the Gulf coast needed help and still do after Katrina hit

Or if, while at home watching one of your many flat screen TVs, a burglar or prowler intrudes, an officer equipped with a gun and a bullet-proof vest will come to defend you and your family against attack or loss.

yep, this is why most families in the US feel its necessary to own a gun

This all in the backdrop of a neighborhood free of bombs or militias raping and pillaging the residents.

Apart from the World Trade center attack all recent terrorist attacks in the US were commited by homegrown US citizens (Unabomber/ Tim McVey )

This in neighborhoods where 90% of the teenagers own cell phones and computers.

And over 40% of students (high-school graduates) admitted to the California State University system have to do remedial math and english before starting class

How about the complete religious, social and political freedoms we enjoy that are the envy of everyone in the world?

Is this why we now have Spring Holiday instead of Easter and send Seasons Greetings cards instead of Christmas (Baby Jesus) cards , Christmas creches are banned but Menorahs are ok , oh I forgot to mention, we also have a President who WON the election with fewer votes than his opponent and led us into biggest overseas debacle since Napoleans march on Moscow in 1812

hardly surprising that the world has a negative view of us

Now you have let the cat out of the bag. Most of the people in the rest of the world do not see the downside. They long to live in the image that is filtered out to them.

But I'm Canadian eh. So I won't get controversial, because we are supposed to be nice ... unless we are wearing skates, or are in the vicinity of helpless baby seals.

By the way, do you know that a Canadian is an unarmed American with medicare

[bullseyebarb]

And yet we don't have a mass migration to other countries, do we? The movement seems to be in the other direction. Guess all of these people, myself included, are not quite as cynical as some on this thread. They recognize a good thing when they see it.

[Eric]

Originally Posted by bullseyebarb

And yet we don't have a mass migration to other countries, do we? The movement seems to be in the other direction. Guess all of these people, myself included, are not quite as cynical as some on this thread. They recognize a good thing when they see it.

Most of the influx seems to come over the southern border .. they walk in to be exploited by those who need cheap labor. I don't think that they have time to be cynical. They are hungry. We don't expect an influx until the war gets a lot worse ... and then it will be like it was in the Viet Nam war; we will get the draft dodgers and the deserters.

[bullseyebarb]

Originally Posted by Eric

Most of the influx seems to come over the southern border .. they walk in to be exploited by those who need cheap labor. I don't think that they have time to be cynical. They are hungry. We don't expect an influx until the war gets a lot worse ... and then it will be like it was in the Viet Nam war; we will get the draft dodgers and the deserters.

I am referring to LEGAL immigrants. Still have a very long list of those waiting their turn to enter the country.

And how many draft dodgers did you actually get during the Viet Nam war? Not all that many at the end of the day. Nowadays, we have an all volunteer military, in case you haven't noticed. You may see a few deserters......but they are in the minority by a long shot. Re-enlistments here are very high. Our guys and gals believe they are making a positive difference - despite all of the lousy press they get, along with the disgraceful comments by many "leading lights" in our government.

[LancYorkYankee]

That's very true Barb. I just sent my 4th "boy" over there. He actually left yesterday. He's a marine (they all are). This kid also calls me Pa and has stated that I'm the closest thing to a father he's had. Really not saying a whole lot as his dad abandoned the family a number of years back.

It certainly brings the war home when we hear of casualties. They are basically happy doing what they do, very discouraged by the negative/blatantly false news presented to the American public, and would all rather be home getting on with their lives!