How "bad off" are Americans? - Page 4

panther · 23-04-2007, 10:00

helppppp, were been took over by americans

Eric · 23-04-2007, 10:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by panther

helppppp, were been took over by americans

Not me, I'm Canadian eh. A quick list of how to tell the difference: we say "eh" a lot, we say "zed" not "zee", we like beer with more than 2% alcohol, we become homicidal on skates but are otherwise generally friendly.

panther · 23-04-2007, 10:24

i want to live in canada, do you see wolves

?

JohnW · 23-04-2007, 11:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billcat

Great Britain took on the role of world policeman and, unfortunately, pretty much bankrupted themselves.

While Russia had nuclear weapons, they too were bankruptiing themselves trying to keep up with the USA. While the CIA regularly issued misleading reports about the "strength" of Russia's economy, the truth was that Russia had grossly overreached in their contest with the USA (and our western allies!) and economic implosion was inevitable.

America has never colonized? Total bull! Read the hsitory of how we acquired Hawaii sometime - it will enlighten you! Let's be realistic - All of the land that is the USA today was taken, often forcibly, from other people. Not to mention our long-term occupation and manipulation of other territory, such as Cuba and the Phillipines. We still hold Puerto Rico, the US Virgin Islands and American Samoa, among others.

So, what is there to admire, in spite all this? Many of the things that we share in common with our friends in the UK! An elected, representative government, considerable freedoms, and a desire to make our countries (and the world) better places to live.

Well, I think it was two world wars which pretty much bankrupted Britain. I suppose you could argue that we were playing world policeman and saving all our 'good friends' in Europe from the mighty German Army. But it was only a matter of time before Hitler turned his eye upon Britain, and we were very much aware of that, so it was really a self preservation thing. Up until then the Brits were doing very nicely thank you, plundering every country that they colonised.

Most of the land in the USA today was stolen from the Red Indians - by, oh that's right, Europeans, mainly Brits, Frenchmen and Spaniards. I suppose Hawaii want out of the Union.

Tealeaf · 23-04-2007, 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnW

Well, I think it was two world wars which pretty much bankrupted Britain. I suppose you could argue that we were playing world policeman and saving all our 'good friends' in Europe from the mighty German Army. But it was only a matter of time before Hitler turned his eye upon Britain, and we were very much aware of that, so it was really a self preservation thing. Up until then the Brits were doing very nicely thank you, plundering every country that they colonised.

Most of the land in the USA today was stolen from the Red Indians - by, oh that's right, Europeans, mainly Brits, Frenchmen and Spaniards. I suppose Hawaii want out of the Union.

I have many American friends; I used to get into serious drinking sessions with members of the US Navy and Marine Corps - we had great discussions and even better arguments. Like all Americans, they wanted to be liked. Sometimes, the question would arise from them "Why do many in the world not like us?". I usually waffled and hummed my way out of that one.

However, if I had a statement such as the one above, I would have replied quite simply - because you talk a load of b*ll*cks. While the US may well have been the prime defender of Western post-1945 interests, it's record prior to that was quite simply, awful.

1) Unlike the UK, the US did not enter WW2 because it was the right thing to do; it entered because it was attacked by Japan and Hitler subsequently declared war on them. If He had not made that mistake, then the US would not have become involved in the European war - it simply would have had no reason to do so and would have been quite happy to see the Russians and the British do the fighting while they stood idly by.

2) Similarily, the US did not enter WW1 until 1917 and then at the point when losses of US civilians on passenger liners became unacceptable. As in WW2, Britain had the option of staying out of this conflict; we could have ignored any treaty obligation and certainly we had no reason whatsoever to fight over Belgian neutrality. The US did nothing.

3) The British in North America went no further than the 13 Eastern seaboard colonies; we had treaties with the native indians which were mutually respected to the extent that it was only with their assistance that the French (a far larger country than Britain) were defeated in the 7 years war.. Had that happened, JW, you would not now be on the Accy web - you would be on the Boulogne or the Toulouse web, gibbering away in Frenchy. The drive west, from the Ohio River to the Rockies- and the subsequent murder, rape and pillage and then land grab all occured in the 19th century under US, not British colonial auspices.

JohnW · 23-04-2007, 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tealeaf

I have many American friends; I used to get into serious drinking sessions with members of the US Navy and Marine Corps - we had great discussions and even better arguments. Like all Americans, they wanted to be liked. Sometimes, the question would arise from them "Why do many in the world not like us?". I usually waffled and hummed my way out of that one.

However, if I had a statement such as the one above, I would have replied quite simply - because you talk a load of b*ll*cks. While the US may well have been the prime defender of Western post-1945 interests, it's record prior to that was quite simply, awful.

1) Unlike the UK, the US did not enter WW2 because it was the right thing to do; it entered because it was attacked by Japan and Hitler subsequently declared war on them. If He had not made that mistake, then the US would not have become involved in the European war - it simply would have had no reason to do so and would have been quite happy to see the Russians and the British do the fighting while they stood idly by.

2) Similarily, the US did not enter WW1 until 1917 and then at the point when losses of US civilians on passenger liners became unacceptable. As in WW2, Britain had the option of staying out of this conflict; we could have ignored any treaty obligation and certainly we had no reason whatsoever to fight over Belgian neutrality. The US did nothing.

3) The British in North America went no further than the 13 Eastern seaboard colonies; we had treaties with the native indians which were mutually respected to the extent that it was only with their assistance that the French (a far larger country than Britain) were defeated in the 7 years war.. Had that happened, JW, you would not now be on the Accy web - you would be on the Boulogne or the Toulouse web, gibbering away in Frenchy. The drive west, from the Ohio River to the Rockies- and the subsequent murder, rape and pillage and then land grab all occured in the 19th century under US, not British colonial auspices.

Mr. T.,

When I said "we" saved our European friends I was in fact referring to Britain doing the saving, although I have to admit, looking back, that was not altogether clear. I was being a little sarcastic because I don't really consider the Europeans saved were particularly good friends, with the possible exception of the Dutch. I will try to make it clearer in future when I say "we" as I can be referring to either the UK or the US.

When it comes to being liked in the world, I don't think the Brits fare much better than the Americans to be honest. Look at all the (so-called friends) European partners in the fiasco known as the European Union. How many of them like the Brits? How many of them do we (the Brits) like?

I don't think Britain entered the 2nd war purely because it was the right thing to do, it was pretty obvious that Britain would not be left off the list of potential slaves to the Third Reich, it was not totally altruistic as you suggest. Better to pre-empt a strike on British soil, and fight alongside the other fearful countries such as the French. We were no doubt expecting a lot more from them than we received.

Eric · 23-04-2007, 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by panther

i want to live in canada, do you see wolves

?

Actually, now you ask, quite a few of them. The wolf population around here is making a comeback; it makes environmental sense. The wolves cull the deer population, getting rid of the sick and the weak. Sort of Darwinish really. So we get a healthy deer population. I saw a couple just last week. About 3 in the morning running along the highway. We also have coyotes, foxes, skunk, deer, moose, racoons, thousands of squirrels, chipmunks, beaver, groundhogs, wild turkey, all kinds of ducks, etc. Did I mention skunk.

Of course that might not be the kind of wolf you are thinking of.