how much ethnic blood do you need to be a minority

[steeljack]

Ok , probably going to get myself into a load of trouble with this one .......as regular users of the site know I live in the US and we have the an election coming up to replace the President , one of the guys running is called Barack Obama , he seems a decent enough sort , only problem I have the guy is 1/2 white (European descent Mother) 1/2 black (Kenyan Father) and the press media is portraying the guy as a Black candidate, my question is why? .........are black genes stronger than white ones ? same applies with golfer Tiger Woods , why wont the media refer to him as the Thai golfer .

My question is .....when a person has maybe 1/4 or 1/8 of african or asian descent can they or should they be allowed to claim minority status when filling in Govt. or 'minority preference' job ads.
We have reached the point here in the US where "native american" tribes are being allowed to open casinos on tribal lands (think its called First Nation status in Canada) in areas/States where gambling is illegal, most of these folks have more in common (thru bloodlines) with european immigrants than they have with Geronimo or Sitting Bull , so why should they be allowed to claim minority status ? a couple of years ago there was a popular singer (Shania Twain) who made a big deal about being part Native American, give me a break , maybe if your lucky she was 1/16 if that, so should she be able to claim ethnic minority status .
Absolutly nothing agianst Shirley Bassey but why the hell should she be classed as a " Black" artist instead of a Welsh artist...if truth be known she probably has more Welsh blood than Charlotte Church and Harry Secombe
ok ...rant over ....

[WillowTheWhisp]

In S. Africa during apartheidt one tiny drop of 'black' blood was enough to consider a person contaminated and not pure. Barmy isn't it? I presume that's the sort of thing where the notion originates though. I totally agree with your point of view. Shirley Bassey is Welsh. She's as Welsh as leeks and daffodils isn'it boyo? I remember thinking the same about Halle Berry when there was all that fuss about her at the Oscars. She's not black. She's a sort of golden colour, quite pale really. Surely there's some kind of racist element to this claim to blackness as if the whiter element is something to be denied?

There's an amusing opposite to this with a friend of mine who comes from the West Indies and is very dark skinned. Somewhere back in her ancestry there's a Scotsman, the only 'white' ancestor she's aware of but boy oh boy is she Scottish - with a vengeance. She displays her tartan, eats haggis and loves bagpipes. What about her other 30+ non Scots ancestors?

[Less]

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

There's an amusing opposite to this with a friend of mine who comes from the West Indies and is very dark skinned. Somewhere back in her ancestry there's a Scotsman, the only 'white' ancestor she's aware of but boy oh boy is she Scottish - with a vengeance. She displays her tartan, eats haggis and loves bagpipes. What about her other 30+ non Scots ancestors?

Yes, it is strange how people will choose their ancestry, when working in Canada my son and his friends met a Canadian that claimed to be Irish because his great, great, great, grandmother was from the Emerald Isle.

This person was drinking Irish Whiskey and stated that he drank Guinness whenever he could get it, because the group of them were obviously 'British', he was deriding the English and saying how they had mistreated the Irish.

Eventually my son told him, "you are not Irish, you are Canadian, I on the other hand am English because I was born in England to an English father and an Irish mother, I have more right to call myself Irish than you have, I could even have an Irish passport if I wanted, but I was brought up in England and therefore I choose to be British, Now, having educated you a little, it's your round I and my English friends will have a pint of lager each which comes from neither England or Ireland, we drink it because we like it".

[WillowTheWhisp]

When I was in Ireland I used to come across Irish people telling me what 'I' had done to 'them' in the past. When I pointed out that I personally had never done anything to them because neither of us were alive back then they would then go on to say that it was my ancestors who had done it to their ancestors - at which stage I would point out that a large proportion of my ancestors were amongst the 'being done unto' group.

[garinda]

I think it must be different over here.

I've never seen Shirley Bassey refered to as 'black'.

Born in Tiger Bay, Welsh, a tax exile in Monacco, stroppy diva, yes, but never black.

[grannyclaret]

Originally Posted by garinda

I think it must be different over here.

I've never seen Shirley Bassey refered to as 'black'.

Born in Tiger Bay, Welsh, a tax exile in Monacco, stroppy diva, yes, but never black.

you missed out the words brilliant and fantastic.......

[Eric]

Originally Posted by steeljack

Ok , probably going to get myself into a load of trouble with this one .......as regular users of the site know I live in the US and we have the an election coming up to replace the President , one of the guys running is called Barack Obama , he seems a decent enough sort , only problem I have the guy is 1/2 white (European descent Mother) 1/2 black (Kenyan Father) and the press media is portraying the guy as a Black candidate, my question is why? .........are black genes stronger than white ones ? same applies with golfer Tiger Woods , why wont the media refer to him as the Thai golfer .

My question is .....when a person has maybe 1/4 or 1/8 of african or asian descent can they or should they be allowed to claim minority status when filling in Govt. or 'minority preference' job ads.
We have reached the point here in the US where "native american" tribes are being allowed to open casinos on tribal lands (think its called First Nation status in Canada) in areas/States where gambling is illegal, most of these folks have more in common (thru bloodlines) with european immigrants than they have with Geronimo or Sitting Bull , so why should they be allowed to claim minority status ? a couple of years ago there was a popular singer (Shania Twain) who made a big deal about being part Native American, give me a break , maybe if your lucky she was 1/16 if that, so should she be able to claim ethnic minority status .
Absolutly nothing agianst Shirley Bassey but why the hell should she be classed as a " Black" artist instead of a Welsh artist...if truth be known she probably has more Welsh blood than Charlotte Church and Harry Secombe
ok ...rant over ....

First nations in Canada are the people we stole the land from ... but there are treaties that gave aboriginal people certain rights in return for the land. This involves reserves which are not really part of Canada. First Nations do not pay provincial tax, they are subject to triabal law, and have numerous unsettled land claims. First Nations do run Casinos, there is a big one just down the road at Akwesasne, and the local Mohawk people on Tyendinaga sell cheap smokes ($15 for 200 for all you smokers out there) and cheap gas (oops petrol) at about 90 cents a litre. Apart from all that most First Nations people are doubly proud ... they are proud Mohawk, Cree, Ojibway etc., and proud Canadians. Hey, it works, and no one does the blood count.

[LancYorkYankee]

Hmm, I'm here thinking Cindy's great great grandfather or something was a Mic Mack Indian in Canada. (I usually try to discount my kids Canuck heritage), but this Indian thing may have some play in it.

I could either start a casino in the back yard or head up to Canada and get some of the land of my poor kids ancestors!

Brian

[mani]

very interesting convo

good question too

i had a similar convo but mine was a lil different i was talkin about rappers and how ghetto you had to be to be ghetto? i mean does it mean you have to get shot 5 times and thats ghetto? (50 cent) get put into a coma from your gunshots (the game) or simply claim to be ghetto cause you visited compton once even though u had a upper/middle class upbringing ( dr dre)

i think america has this infatuation with itself. it wants to say black so that it can say look how far we've moved on from the civil liberties movement. look how a black man is now the best in a white mans game. look how a black man is running for president where previously black people were slaves etc.

everyone tries to play the ethnic card so that they can sorta get the support of that ethnic group. J-lo has always played on her hispanic roots and thus having a very strong fan base there. though there's been cases where the ethnic card wasnt played - nasser hussain never really went on about how he was half indian. one case of over emphasising his ethnic mix was prince nas the boxer and how he wud have the yemen flag aswell as the uk flag. in hte latter of his career he even went on with the islamic angle too.

[Flash]

[quote=WillowTheWhisp;409123] I remember thinking the same about Halle Berry when there was all that fuss about her at the Oscars. She's not black. She's a sort of golden colour, quite pale really. Surely there's some kind of racist element to this claim to blackness as if the whiter element is something to be denied?

Lets test it shall we- walk down any main street with 'golden, really quite pale' skin and lets see how many racist ass wipes hurl abuse at you- then try telling me you are not a minority.

I think the race card issue being played in the US elections is actually a real problem as it is being used as a means of dscrediting Obama. If you actually listen to the guy he talks a tremendous amount of sense. As any politically ambitious individual however he would be a fool not to maximise the potential vote win his heritage could lead to. Lets face it- any candidiate who manages to mobilise the minority, youth and female vote in the good old U S of A is destined for the White House. As Michael Moore suggested the two sure things should they ever choose to run for office in the states are Oprah Winfrey and Tom Hanks.
You also know full well that if Arnold Shwarzenegger (spelling?) could run for the presidency then he would and again would probably walk it. Fascistic heritage I'm sure would not create the same response.

[West Ender]

I'm one of a minority. I'm English as far back as the 16th century on both sides of my family, not a drop of Irish, Welsh, Scottish or anything else, and Lancashire English to boot. Do you realise how it feels to be me? No one speaks up for us pure-bred Lancashire English. No one celebrates our patron saint (St John-Willy of Ramsbottom), respects our Lancashire English traditions (whippet racing and chip-guzzling etc.) or even accepts our National Dress (clogs, a thick muffler and Thermogene sewn into the vest from October to April).

We had a representative in the House of Commons once upon a time, the revered and very large Cyril Smith, but as he was a Liberal nobody ever listened to a word he said and that London lot said they couldn't understand a word he said so it didn't do us much good.

There are many Lancashire English around today who are not pure-bred. Oh they'll tell you their dad was born in Ossy and their granddad hailed from Walton-le-Dale but they won't mention the granny who came from County Wicklow or the great grandfather who started life in Peebles.

It's not easy being a Minority and we are a dieing breed. I have to admit to being a traitor to my origins - I married a Yorkshireman whose ancestors came from Goole (definitely a touch of Viking blood there - I had the devil's own job trying to keep him from pillaging small settlements on the North Yorks moors) so my children are all half-breeds, and not one of them born in Lancs either.

You are what you are and what you're comfortable with. Right?

[Flash]

[quote=West Ender;409972]
You are what you are and what you're comfortable with. Right?

Right!

[steeljack]

Originally Posted by Flash

[

I think the race card issue being played in the US elections is actually a real problem as it is being used as a means of dscrediting Obama. If you actually listen to the guy he talks a tremendous amount of sense. As any politically ambitious individual however he would be a fool not to maximise the potential vote win his heritage could lead to. .

Sorry Flash , but disagree with you on this , the only person discrediting Obama , by playing the race card is Obama , by describing himself as Black and pandering for the Black vote by saying 'look at me, I'm the same as you'. he turns others off because then he becomes just another Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton
If the guy wants to win the election he has got to start saying to America 'look at me, I'm an American same as you '

[flashy]

i'd be here forever if i tried to explain my family....my mums dad was a mclean so thats scottish, my grans mum was french..demain...my dads dad was welsh........go figure

[claytonender]

I certainly have a mix of ethnic blood, English, French, German with a bit of native American thrown in for good measure, and with the wives of both George Washington and Robert E Lee in my family tree. But as I was born in England I have never considered myself anything but English.