How short is the memory? - Page 2

Northern Monkey · 08-09-2009, 14:03

It didn't seem to be the case when I was there last summer, and my brother were there for four years. He never had any problems with people being supportive of the Nazis in the 30's and 40's.

Although, I cannot argue with your experiences. There always is a small proportion of idiots though in all societys - a la BNP members and supporters in this country.

cashman · 08-09-2009, 14:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

It didn't seem to be the case when I was there last summer, and my brother were there for four years. He never had any problems with people being supportive of the Nazis in the 30's and 40's.

Although, I cannot argue with your experiences. There always is a small proportion of idiots though in all societys - a la BNP members and supporters in this country.

yer last paragraph was my point, wasn't having a pop or owt.

Northern Monkey · 08-09-2009, 14:22

It's OK, I never felt that you were doing

Tealeaf · 08-09-2009, 17:36

The story now going the rounds in Afgan is that when General McChrystal asked the German commander to accompany him to the incident site the German replied that it was not currently a good idea as ..."we might get shot at."

Eric · 08-09-2009, 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay

See nobody mentioned the French

C'mon ... there are lots of French doing their part in Afghanistan ... for some strange reason tho', they are wearing the Maple Leaf

Eric · 08-09-2009, 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

You can't blame the German people now for something that happened 70 years ago. That is just ludicrous. Blowing up the oil tanker was a bit extreme in these conditions. It's ridiculous to compare it to the Holocaust though - something that the Germans are very embarrassed about to this day.

I think I'll line up with Royboy on this one (the guy who's going to owe me forty bucks at the end of the season) ... seventy years is not nearly long enough for memories to fade. Tens of millions killed because of the Germans; remember, they started two world wars, what the hell, was one not enough? .... and I don't buy into the idea that there were only about a dozen Nazis, but they worked real hard ... they were in it almost to a man, all of them. There was no shortage of volunteers for even the dirtiest jobs, like dragging off children and the elderly to the ovens ... and does no one look at history and notice how weak and pathetic the opposition to the Nazis really was? Kriegslustig .... it's probably still there if you scratch the surface. I remember a comment from de Gaulle: when he heard that the German army had switched to rubber soled boots, he said "Ah, next time, we won't hear them coming."

The twentieth century was a bloodstained time. And it is the fault of the Germans.

Restless · 08-09-2009, 18:37

how much time is needed? its the same for many memories.. We english should be hated all over if memories never fade... being one of the most barbaric countries throughout history

Eric · 08-09-2009, 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Restless

how much time is needed? its the same for many memories.. We english should be hated all over if memories never fade... being one of the most barbaric countries throughout history

Twice, in one generation, the Germans dragged the world into the bloodiest wars in history ... England doesn't even come close to this .... and when you are bitching about your economic woes, remember that England spent its national treasure, and the best and bravest of its citizens to hold the Germans at bay.

Len Deighton put it well in "Blood, Tears, and Folly": "Half a century has passed, and the time has come to sweep away the myths and reveal the no less inspiring gleam of that complex and frightening time in which evil was in the ascendant, goodness diffident, and the British - impetuous, foolish and brave beyond measure - the world's only hope." This is your legacy, one to be proud of. The German legacy is, I believe, summed up in "evil was in the ascendant."

Northern Monkey · 08-09-2009, 20:33

Hating a nation of people for something that happened 70 years a go is just narrow minded. The people in the German army now certainly were not involved in the henious crimes of Nazi Germany.

The Nazis were a vile set of people, and no one is disputing that - but, for us to move on from it, we have to move on from something that involves people that are mainly dead now.

Eric · 08-09-2009, 21:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

Hating a nation of people for something that happened 70 years a go is just narrow minded. The people in the German army now certainly were not involved in the henious crimes of Nazi Germany.

The Nazis were a vile set of people, and no one is disputing that - but, for us to move on from it, we have to move on from something that involves people that are mainly dead now.

I guess we will agree to differ. But to say the "Nazis were a vile set of people" is to set the Nazis apart from the rest of the Germans, who were, no doubt, misled and coerced. Unfortunately, that is not how it was. A good read on this subject is "Hitler's Willing Executioners: Ordinary Germans and the Holocaust" by Daniel Goldhagen. And it is worthwhile to remember that millions who are "mainly dead now" were killed by the Germans.

Rather than forgive and forget, I prefer the attitude of Charles Hazlitt Upham, VC & Bar, 2nd. New Zealand Expeditionary Force, who, until his death in 1994 would not even allow a VW to drive on his land.

Royboy39 · 08-09-2009, 21:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

Hating a nation of people for something that happened 70 years a go is just narrow minded. The people in the German army now certainly were not involved in the henious crimes of Nazi Germany.

The Nazis were a vile set of people, and no one is disputing that - but, for us to move on from it, we have to move on from something that involves people that are mainly dead now.

I was on this earth seventy years ago as a baby in arms and am not dead yet.
Many of the extended families of the Brave Souls who perished in WWII are still alive and may think your post an insult.

Northern Monkey · 08-09-2009, 21:25

I've got family who fought in both wars - one member of my family recieved a VC in WWI.

Laurence Calvert - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Even speaking to my grandma I learnt much about how war life was. She doesn't hate all Germans.

When I said who are mainly dead now - I meant the perpetrators of the crimes. I just can't see what having lots of pent up anger and hate against people which is not their doing is going to achieve?

Eric · 08-09-2009, 21:54

Seems to me that all the forgiving and forgetting and appeasement in the thirties didn't get you all that far either. For me, it's the immensity of the German crimes against humanity that dominates .... and it's still with us .... the wars were so disruptive that we are still experiencing the aftershocks; the Middle East comes quickly to mind.

steeljack · 08-09-2009, 22:36

When my Mom and Dad (Royal Navy 39-45) used to go on holiday to Spain in the 70s and 80s they much preferred staying at a place with older,similar in age to them Germans, they said it was a better holiday being away from the Bingo and Chips crowd ,When I asked him about how they got along , said no problem they are great folks and they were young lads just like him and his shipmates doing what they were told to do , no animosity on either side , both sides happy they had managed to survive .

Restless · 08-09-2009, 22:47

i feel and partly agree with comments above but as part of the human race you got to agree that you cannot type cast any person. To hate germans is like somebody said...its like voting BNP and hating in general. I dont know i find it hard....these subjects to speak my mind and not either offend or sound like a fool... but **** it i have traded live concerts with A GERMAN FRIEND and he studies nazi past struggling to to understand why a family member fought in the war... and i know he has a passion for peace far beyond anybody i know... this is mostly why i commented in the thread