How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum? - Page 12

cashman · 21-10-2011, 15:00

seems none of the main parties do, that being the case i reckon its time the british public boycotted all the main parties, its that simple.

groove · 21-10-2011, 15:00

Groove thinks we should pull out of Europe immediately.

groove · 21-10-2011, 15:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman

seems none of the main parties do, that being the case i reckon its time the british public boycotted all the main parties, its that simple.

Groove likes Mr.Cashmans idea.

garinda · 21-10-2011, 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wrighty

...it was a Labour Government in 1975 that held instituted a referendum on Britain’s membership of the European Union

Er...at least check the facts are right Graham.

Before chirping out the party line, like a good little canary in the gilded political cage.

The European Union didn't exist until the Maastricht Treaty came into force in 1993.

The actual wording of the 1975 referendum question was...

“Do you think that the United Kingdom should stay in the European Community (The Common Market)?”

The majority of the constituents you are paid to represent demand a say in their future, because not one single person has ever been allowed the right to say if they want to be members of the European Union.

A body that is not a trade alliance, which the Common Market was, back in 1975.

A referendum is the only democratic way to rectify this.

People are very angry that they have had no right to say what their destiny will be.

As stated earlier, I am one person, with one vote, but I will never again give that vote to any politican, or party that doesn't actively support the right to a referendum on this issue.

One voice...but I'm certainly not the only bird in trilling away in my cage.

Margaret Pilkington · 21-10-2011, 17:27

Anyone under the age of 54 has never been given a choice to say what their views are.
So the vast majority of people in the country have not had a voice.

garinda · 21-10-2011, 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Anyone under the age of 54 has never been given a choice to say what their views are.
So the vast majority of people in the country have not had a voice.

...and those old enough to have had their say in the '75 referendum, voted on whether to stay in the 'Common Market' trade alliance.

Not to be governed by a centralised political body.

Which the European Union most certainly is.

JCB · 21-10-2011, 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wrighty

Seems Mr Jones doesn't believe in democracy

We live in a Parliamentary Democracy .

We do not legislate by referendums .

There have only been two nationwide referendums in the UK .
The 1975 one on EEC membership , the primary purpose of which was for Harold Wilson to solve the deep divisions within the then Labour Party on the European issue .

This year's one on the Alternative Vote was part of the agreement which enabled the Cons and the Lib Dems to form a coalition .

Clement Attlee was correct when he said that referendums are not British .

Anyone who wants to vote for a withdrawal from the EU can always vote for a candidate of a party such as UKIP at the next General Election , or , if there is no such anti-EU candidate , put himself/herself forward as one .

It's just how we do things in the UK .

Margaret Pilkington · 21-10-2011, 19:01

It is fine to put those ideas forward JCB, but I am sure you realise that the small parties like UKIP have no chance of influencing things......Only the major parties have much influence....and this is often for traditional reasons.
Going back to Clement Attlee is both unhelpful and irrelevant. Politics was a very different animal when Clement Attlee was around. Referendums might not have been British then....... the face of Britain has changed beyond all recognition. I just wonder what he would have thought about directives for legisaltion being made in Brussels.

As far as putting oneself up for Election to a party that supports an anti EU view......that isn't very practical either.

Gordon Booth · 21-10-2011, 19:06

[quote=JCB;941382]We live in a Parliamentary Democracy .

We do not legislate by referendums (quote) .

Perhaps it's time we did, in cases as important as the peacefull takeover of our country!
If a referendum was acceptable in 1975 to get us in then your argument is negated. A referendum to decide if we stay in should be just as legitimate.
As you say, the political parties are happy enough to have one when it suits their purpose( as in 1975 and 2011).

garinda · 21-10-2011, 19:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCB

It's just how we do things in the UK .

How things are done, by stealth, have radically changed in the United Kingdom in recent years.

We are now governed by, and subject to laws issued in Brussels.

Prior to us being bamboozled into becoming members of the European Union, we weren't.

It's a much more important issue to our national independence than the last half-arsed referendum. Which was supposed to be about proportional representation, but wasn't.

Carry on waving your 'It's too complicated to leave' white flag of surrender.

Whether it's 'how' things were done in the past or not, people are angry, and demand their say on this issue in a referendum.

You can stick your white flag where the Euro don't shine. Which is pretty much everywhere.

Ever since we've had more transparency, and our elected representatives have become more acountable to us than ever before, much to their distaste, 'how things were done in the past' no longer matter.

People are demanding a say on how their destiny is mapped out.

JCB · 21-10-2011, 19:23

[quote=Gordon Booth;941391]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCB

We live in a Parliamentary Democracy .

We do not legislate by referendums (quote) .

Perhaps it's time we did, in cases as important as the peacefull takeover of our country!
If a referendum was acceptable in 1975 to get us in then your argument is negated. A referendum to decide if we stay in should be just as legitimate.
As you say, the political parties are happy enough to have one when it suits their purpose( as in 1975 and 2011).

The 1975 referendum was not to get us in . We had been in since 1973 . It was to see whether we should stay in , and was really for Harold Wilson's party political reasons , to solve problems in the Labour Party about the EEC .

Parliamentary sovereignty in the UK means that referendums are not constitutionally binding .

I am not in favour of them anyway .

garinda · 21-10-2011, 19:28

I gave the actual wording of the 1975 referendum, when the Common Market was nothing more than a trade alliance, in #169 of this thread.

“Do you think that the United Kingdom should stay in the European Community (The Common Market)?”

No mention of the European Union.

It didn't exist!

garinda · 21-10-2011, 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCB

We do not legislate by referendums .

Since 1973 there have been 11 referendums in the U.K., including the two national ones.

When it comes to referendums at local government level, in that same time frame, you can 37 more to that list.

What were you saying about referendums not being 'how we do things in the U.K.'?

JCB · 21-10-2011, 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

Carry on waving your 'It's too complicated to leave' white flag of surrender.
.

I am not saying it is too complicated to leave .

Some are saying we should get out immediately . That's too simplistic .

I have no strong preference as to whether we should be in or out .

What I am trying to get across is that we should not leave the EU without ensuring that the alternative will be better . Now surely that's going to take time and plenty of negotiating . Complicated ? Yes , but not too complicated .

Whether you like the man or not , Neil Kinnock was correct when in his anti-Militant Tendency speech of 1985 he said , " You don't play politics with peoples' jobs . "

I want to see the jobs , the livelihoods , and the welfare of the people of this country guaranteed in any alternative to the EU .

Margaret Pilkington · 21-10-2011, 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCB

I am not saying it is too complicated to leave .

Some are saying we should get out immediately . That's too simplistic .

I have no strong preference as to whether we should be in or out .

What I am trying to get across is that we should not leave the EU without ensuring that the alternative will be better . Now surely that's going to take time and plenty of negotiating . Complicated ? Yes , but not too complicated .

Whether you like the man or not , Neil Kinnock was correct when in his anti-Militant Tendency speech of 1985 he said , " You don't play politics with peoples' jobs . "

I want to see the jobs , the livelihoods , and the welfare of the people of this country guaranteed in any alternative to the EU .

What Neil Kinnock said was just empty rhetoric. Politicians have always played politics on the back of Jobs. Ask those who work for Bombardier at Derby and see what they say.