How'd you vote in an E.U. referendum?

[JCB]

Originally Posted by garinda

Since 1973 there have been 11 referendums in the U.K., including the two national ones.

When it comes to referendums at local government level, in that same time frame, you can 37 more to that list.

What were you saying about referendums not being 'how we do things in the U.K.'?

I was referring to nationwide referendums within our Parliamentary system . Referendums that are not constitutionally binding because of Parliamentary sovereignty .

We don't rule by referendums in this country .

[DaveinGermany]

Originally Posted by JCB

Whether you like the man or not , Neil Kinnock was correct when in his anti-Militant Tendency speech of 1985 he said , " You don't play politics with peoples' jobs . "

I want to see the jobs , the livelihoods , and the welfare of the people of this country guaranteed in any alternative to the EU .

Well surely if we were out of the EU & not constrained by their rulings to allow economic migrants into the Country in droves, there'd be sufficient work places for the UK populace. Just a thought. Plus the money earned would be put back into our own economy & not sent to other Countries within the EU.

[Margaret Pilkington]

you are right we don't rule by referendums...we are ruled by politicians who promise one thing and then do another.......they certainly do not listen to the electorate. That was one of the reasons the last government were kicked out. They did not take into account the worries expressed by the electorate, about uncontrolled immigration.

If this government do not listen to the growing swell of concern about EU and policies that damage the fabric of our society, then they too, may face the same fate.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by JCB

I was referring to nationwide referendums within our Parliamentary system . Referendums that are not constitutionally binding because of Parliamentary sovereignty .

We don't rule by referendums in this country .

Odd then, that the government legislated and passed the 'Political Parties, Elections Referendum Act 2000'.

After recommendations by the Committee on Standards in Public Life that 'politics should be more transparent and accessible'.

Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000

No doubt because the government have sanctioned 48 referendums in the U.K. since 1973, and wanted to make sure future ones were both legal and fair.

Besides, the past is an irrelevance.

Not one Briton has voted this country be governed by a European Union.

The fact is we are.

Thousands, and thousands of people are demanding a say in the matter, via a referendum.

You carry on waving your white flag of surrender, and let others fight, for what is the only possible solution to this injustice.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany

Plus the money earned would be put back into our own economy & not sent to other Countries within the EU.

Like Romania?

Originally Posted by garinda

Just watched this.

BBC News - Panorama - The secret lives of Britain's child beggars

Heartbreaking.

Heartbreaking for the children who are trafficked into the U.K. by their parents.

To beg, and take advantage of the generous legitimate social benefits available to them in the U.K., and exploit with ease those same benefits fraudulently. Before driving back to their luxurious palaces in Romania, in their expensive Mercs, all funded thanks to the British tax payer.

More heartbreaking is that in all the years I lived in London, in the eighties, nineties, and early noughties, the number of professional beggars working in London you could count on the fingers of two hands.

My, how things have changed, in the few short years Romania has been a member of the E.U., with it's open border policies.

The next expansion of the E.U. will most likely include countries like Turkey, with it's 75 million population.

Shall we open a book, guessing how long before they become full E.U. members?

Three? Five? Seven years?

...and please don't anyone dare try and label me as racist, because I oppose the madness that ensues from the U.K.'s membership of the E.U.

I was actively fighting real racism and prejudice from the age of fourteen.

Not the lily-livered, liberal apologists' version of perceived racism, that's so popular today within the ruling elite, who favour 'positive discrimination', and which ironically is actually racist by it's very concept.

This issue is frightening, not just because what's happening, and will continue to happen, but because of the inevitable rise in support there'll be for extremist political groups. Supported by ordinary people who feel so disenfranchised, and let down by mainstream political parties, who they feel have sold them down the river.

In years to come you can forget 'Rivers of blood', this will make Bosnia look like a tea party. The seas around Britain will be red with blood that's been shed.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by garinda

You carry on waving your white flag of surrender, and let others fight, for what is the only possible solution to this injustice.

Originally Posted by JCB

there is a problem , a big one , not just in untying 36 years' of red tape , but in also withdrawing from all the trading agreements set up by the UK through its 36 years of EEC/EU membership

This is quite simply a wrong versus right matter.

Because it's right there be a referendum on the fundamental way we're governed, it's at least worth the fight, that it might happen...before it's too late.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

you are right we don't rule by referendums...we are ruled by politicians who promise one thing and then do another.......they certainly do not listen to the electorate. That was one of the reasons the last government were kicked out. They did not take into account the worries expressed by the electorate, about uncontrolled immigration.

If this government do not listen to the growing swell of concern about EU and policies that damage the fabric of our society, then they too, may face the same fate.

Yes, along with other broken election pleges, referendums have been dangled before the electorate as a glittering prize, in the run up to recent General Elections.

Though as we've seen from successive governments, they soon renege on holding these promised referendums, once they've secured election victory.

[g jones]

At the 2010 General Election Labour did stand on a pro EU ticket without referendum. Whatever my own personal views are, any shift from that would be a case of MPs promising one thing and doing another. I would legitamaly anger pro EU Labour voters who quite rightly feel cheated.

[Taggy]

Graham, its blatantly obvious that the UK people WANT a vote on this..and its equally obvious what the result would be...i can think of NOT ONE SINGLE reason why the public should not be given what they want!..We are getting sick of the Animals running the Zoo!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MP's are elected to represent the public!!

Best Regards - Taggy

[garinda]

Originally Posted by g jones

At the 2010 General Election Labour did stand on a pro EU ticket without referendum.

Yes. A General Election Labour lost.

Originally Posted by g jones

I would legitamaly anger pro EU Labour voters who quite rightly feel cheated.

Been contacted by many pro-European Unionists here in Hyndburn Graham?

Because you sure as hell don't seem to have much support on here, as witnessed by the three polls there's been on Accy Web on this issue over the last seven years.

Especially if we discount the votes of yourself, and Councillors Smith and Dawson. Which brings the local support down to almost nil.

Carry on.

Toe the party line.

At least Greg Pope had the sense to rebel against the party, when he knew it was what the people who elected him would expect.

Good luck at the next General Election, if we're still a constituency.

Choosing not to vote to right this injustice, by allowing the people of Hyndburn a voice in a referendum, I fear you'll need it.

[Taggy]

I will also add Graham........that the vast majority of votes cast for you at the last election were because you were a local candidate, representing local NOT NATIONAL opinion, i think you should represent that when you make your decision!..

If you disagree..please tell me why?

Best Regards - Taggy

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Taggy

I will also add Graham........that the vast majority of votes cast for you at the last election were because you were a local candidate, representing local NOT NATIONAL opinion, i think you should represent that when you make your decision!..

If you disagree..please tell me why?

Best Regards - Taggy

I was just starting to say something along similar lines when you posted that.

Traditional local Labour voters turned their back on the party in droves. Sickened by the way the country was being run by 'New Labour', after three consecutive terms. Especially after the expenses scandals, ongoing wars, disastrous economic policies, and unfettered immigration.

Your election victory was much aided by the fact you were local, and relatively unknown, other than that of an untested politican in practical terms, who'd led the opposition on H.B.C., but mainly because the Tory's couldn't get their act together.

Which meant their candidate's campaign was very easy to rubbish. I'll hold my hands up, I did. Sometimes using snippets fed to me by yourself, but were too afraid to say publicly.

It genuinely sickens me, as stated earlier, that I'll probably be forced to vote for a single issue party at the next election, but I fear I'll have no choice.

If as you say, you vote against people being allowed their say in a referendum, you will not get my vote, and I'll do everything in my limited power to pursuade others not to do so as well.

I respect you as a person Graham, and think you're a good man, with a good heart, and have honourable intentions, but with every fibre of my body I know you are wrong on this issue, and are totally out of touch with the needs of the people you represent.

[Taggy]

Originally Posted by garinda

I was just starting to say something along similar lines when you posted that.

Traditional local Labour voters turned their back on the party in droves. Sickened by the way the country was being run by 'New Labour', after three consecutive terms. Especially after the expenses scandals, ongoing wars, and disastrous economic policies.

Your election victory was much aided by the fact you were local, and relatively unknown, other than that of an untested politican in practical terms, who'd led the opposition on H.B.C., but mainly because the Tory's couldn't get their act together.

Which meant their candidate's campaign was very easy to rubbish. I'll hold my hands up, I did. Sometimes using snippets fed to me by yourself, but were too afraid to say publicly.

It genuinely sickens me, as stated earlier, that I'll probably be forced to vote for a single issue party at the next election, but I fear I'll have no choice.

If as you say, you vote against people being allowed their say in a referendum, you will not get my vote, and I'll do everything in my limited power to pursuade others not to do so as well.

I respect you as a person Graham, and think you're a good man, with a good heart, and have honourable intentions, but with every fibre of my body I know you are wrong on this issue, and are totally out of touch with the needs of the people you represent.

I can do nothing more than echo Garinda's post...so it's up to you Graham...you either continue to represent the people that voted for you, which up until now i feel you have, or you decide that now that we have put you in a position of relative power & wealth..we no longer matter to you!

This is going to be a big decision for you...and i'm with Garinda in saying that if you don't agree for a referendum you will not get my vote next time!

Best Regards - Taggy

[Eric]

Looks like I've got only about half an hour left before the world ends; so, I'll mention something that just crossed my mind ... a short trip .... But is it not true that the EU needs Britain at least as much as Britain is said, at least by EU supporters, to need the EU? I realize that it is not as simple as writing an e-mail stating: "We are leaving, have a nice day", but Britain is a large economy still, even with the problems it is facing. So it really doesn't seem as if "there is no alternative". Wasn't that a famous Thatcher saying, by the way

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by g jones

At the 2010 General Election Labour did stand on a pro EU ticket without referendum. Whatever my own personal views are, any shift from that would be a case of MPs promising one thing and doing another. I would legitamaly anger pro EU Labour voters who quite rightly feel cheated.

How can you feel cheated if you are allowed to have a say. Is it fair that a large proportion of this country have never had a say in this destiny of their country?

What about the large number of people who want to either re-negotiate our terms/leave the EU altogether.....it is Ok for them to feel cheated, is it?

And because Labour stood on a Pro-Europe ticket without any promise of a referendum Graham, does that not lead you to suspect that that may be one of the reasons why they were not re-elected?

I know my memory is dimming a little, but I do remember campaigns where parties said they would, if elected, give the electorate a chance to have a say on the EU...........then, because they could see how difficult it would be if the vote went against being in the EU, they reneged on their promises.

I really do struggle with my conscinence at the time of elections because I know I am being lied to....the parties(all of them) tell the electorate what they think we want to hear, and certainly they tell us what they think we should know. This does not sit well with me. Increasingly their is a blurring of the demarcation lines between the parties, which means, effectively, that there isn't really a choice at all.....except perhaps the choice of lesser evils(and recently they haven't been that 'lesser').

These are just my humble(thought out...considered) opinions, so I know they aren't worth much.