Hyndburn Council tax set to rise

[heth]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

I am pleased that my response met with your approval Heth.......I do try...in fact himself says that I am very trying.

Funny that I get the same from the t'other half!!

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by gynn

Yes there are certainly a lot of savings to be made in those areas, and to be fair, the savings identified in the budget report to Cabinet will go a long way towards sweeping away such meaningless work.

What concerns me in the list of savings is the assumption that additional income will be raised. It is one thing to reduce spending, but it is quite another to generate additional monies from outside the authority, especially when there will be fewer staff to carry out the work.

I refer particularly to the following:-

Additional Income from Pest Control £30,000. Yes you can increase prices, with inevitable consumer resistance, but where is this sort of extra money coming from? More rats and cockroaches, perhaps? And if its available, why has nobody been chasing it before?

Budget Re-Alignment Income - Environmental Health £40,500. What on earth is this? How does re-aligning your budgets increase the income from outside the authority?

Income from Better Waste Management £28,000. I thought the Council was already a top performer in waste management. What is it going to do that is even better?

Additional Fees from Regeneration £418,689. Aren't we in a recession? Who is going to pay the Council that sort of money for regenerating the borough in the next 12 months?

Additional Fees - Environmental Schemes £4,400. In a recession?

Accountancy Services - Increased Income £21,000. Who from? Where from?

Corporate Services Additional Income Generation £82,416. Who are they trying to kid? Corporate Services is the cradle of the bureaucratic pen pushers. No outside body would go anywhere near paying them to do anything.

If the answer given to any of the above is that it is increased charging between council departments, then that is a non answer. It is robbing Peter to pay Paul and generates zero extra income to the Council.

The list above totals well over £600,000. Councillors need to satisfy themselves that it is achievable, and achievable in the next 12 months.

This was my beef with the publicised Overview & Scrutiny Committee meeting with Cllr Britcliffe several weeks ago. They moved the planning meeting at the last minute and as a result I was unable to attend, but the officers that they moved it for didn't attend either so what was the point?

At the meeting itself this was pointed out as the flaw in all my questions, that I couldn't be bothered going to planning meetings. When I tried to ask about these magical mystery figures these were shouted down by the chair, a man whom up until now I have had great respect for.

Scrutiny at the moment leaves a lot to be desired. I find myself saying that with a real pang of regret because I had faith in the system up until recently.

Many of the savings rely on predicted generated income, the evidence for which seems to be sorely lacking.

[gynn]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

Many of the savings rely on predicted generated income, the evidence for which seems to be sorely lacking.

But the predicted income is an enormous part of the budget. If the information about the certainty of attaining the income isn't there, then it isn't a balanced budget.

And one of the main things the Council has a legal requirement to do is set a balanced budget!

[shillelagh]

rossendales council tax aint going up ... just been told when i rang them up to find out if i still owed owt .....

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by gynn

But the predicted income is an enormous part of the budget. If the information about the certainty of attaining the income isn't there, then it isn't a balanced budget.

And one of the main things the Council has a legal requirement to do is set a balanced budget!

This is the Britcliffe administration, overseers of a borough of hope and dreams, where everything that goes wrong can be laid firmly at the door of Graham Jones and 13 years of those pesky Labour people.

We're an excellent council, can't you read? The Audit Commission said so, I'm sure such a fine organisation will have no such need to follow the rules.

Nurse, my medication please....it helps me deal with the mammoth task we'll be facing in May.

[Tealeaf]

There was a report dated 9th Feb 2011, author 'Director, Executive Rescources' on HBC's budget for 2011-12; after about thirty-odd pages of waffle, it gives a couple of spreadsheets detailing HBC's budget for 2011-12.

The summary reads as follows:

Spending type: £'s (000's) %

Community Services 7,801 54

Regeneration 1,331 9

Policy & Corp Governance 5,312 37

TOTAL 14,444 100

The percentages are mine. What I find puzzling though, is what the hell the council is doing spending over £5.3million to ensure that £7.8million's worth of services are provided - i.e. 37% of the total budget. This is completely crazy. Surely the figure should be more like 15% and preferably under 10%. What is going on here? And who is the 'Director, Executive Resources'? (although I'm sure he's a nice guy, but not as nice as me).

[cashman]

Attila the Hun was as nice as you T.

[gynn]

Originally Posted by Tealeaf

What I find puzzling though, is what the hell the council is doing spending over £5.3million to ensure that £7.8million's worth of services are provided - i.e. 37% of the total budget. This is completely crazy. Surely the figure should be more like 15% and preferably under 10%. What is going on here? And who is the 'Director, Executive Resources'? (although I'm sure he's a nice guy, but not as nice as me).

Let's go back to the emptying of Acrylic Bob's bin mentioned in a previous thread.

The people who empty it are Community Services, as are the people driving them to Bob's house in a lorry which needs to be looked after in a garage that needs to be maintained, again by Community Services staff. They have to be told which house to go to by a supervisor, and someone has to check that it is the right type of rubbish in the right colour bin. They all need to be managed by a director, probably called the Director of Community Services, although such titles seem to have been replaced by "Executive Director" to justify a pay rise.

Got it so far? So far its all Community Services.

The problems start after that, because the Director needs to be guided by a councillor who needs to decide how often the bin will be emptied.
Someone has to keep a record of how much it is all costing. Someone has to ensure that nothing illegal is being done in emptying the bin. Someone has to fill in the forms to say that the bin has been emptied, into the right colour box at the right price and in full accordance with the law. Someone has to fill in more forms which compare how the bin has been emptied compared to bins in a council of similar size and standing, and someone has to fill in a form to show that in empying ther bin, the Council has acted in accordance with its corporate strategy. Finally, someone has to decide whether the emptying of your bin, along with the other services that the council provides makes the council weak, poor, average, good or, in Hyndburn's case, excellent. And of course all these people need to be told how to do it by a supervisor who needs to be managed by a director who needs to be guided by a councillor who wants to take the glory.

This last list of people, the Councillor, the Coster, the Legal Eagle, the Form Filler, the Box Ticker, the Strategy Officer, the Supervisor of all these people and the person deciding whether Hyndburn is excellent....are all part of the Policy and Corporate Governance. As is the Director - Executive Resources who writes reports about it to Cabinet meetings. And they all need feeding, courtesy of Councillor Hurn, and they need something to identify who the top dog is, hence the medal with a yellow ribbon.

So its no surprise it costs so much.

Clear now?

[garinda]

Originally Posted by gynn

Clear now?

Er...no.

Sorry.

I got stuck on Acidic-bab's bin.

Filthy.

[gynn]

......oh, and the Director - Executive Resources is a VERY nice person, much nicer than you, Tealeaf. Only problem is he's a Geordie.....

[lancsdave]

Originally Posted by gynn

Let's go back to the emptying of Acrylic Bob's bin mentioned in a previous thread.

The people who empty it are Community Services, as are the people driving them to Bob's house in a lorry which needs to be looked after in a garage that needs to be maintained, again by Community Services staff. They have to be told which house to go to by a supervisor, and someone has to check that it is the right type of rubbish in the right colour bin. They all need to be managed by a director, probably called the Director of Community Services, although such titles seem to have been replaced by "Executive Director" to justify a pay rise.

Got it so far? So far its all Community Services.

The problems start after that, because the Director needs to be guided by a councillor who needs to decide how often the bin will be emptied.
Someone has to keep a record of how much it is all costing. Someone has to ensure that nothing illegal is being done in emptying the bin. Someone has to fill in the forms to say that the bin has been emptied, into the right colour box at the right price and in full accordance with the law. Someone has to fill in more forms which compare how the bin has been emptied compared to bins in a council of similar size and standing, and someone has to fill in a form to show that in empying ther bin, the Council has acted in accordance with its corporate strategy. Finally, someone has to decide whether the emptying of your bin, along with the other services that the council provides makes the council weak, poor, average, good or, in Hyndburn's case, excellent. And of course all these people need to be told how to do it by a supervisor who needs to be managed by a director who needs to be guided by a councillor who wants to take the glory.

This last list of people, the Councillor, the Coster, the Legal Eagle, the Form Filler, the Box Ticker, the Strategy Officer, the Supervisor of all these people and the person deciding whether Hyndburn is excellent....are all part of the Policy and Corporate Governance. As is the Director - Executive Resources who writes reports about it to Cabinet meetings. And they all need feeding, courtesy of Councillor Hurn, and they need something to identify who the top dog is, hence the medal with a yellow ribbon.

So its no surprise it costs so much.

Clear now?

You missed the bit where they don't tip it all in the wagon and leave it on the street so somebody else has to come round and clean it up

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

I am pleased that my response met with your approval Heth.......I do try...in fact himself says that I am very trying.

Seems Like himself is a sensible type of a chap Margaret, and before ya chip in ya he did marry you

[lancsdave]

According to His Holiness in this weeks Observer 'Hyndburn residents will not pay a penny more in council tax for 2011/2012'

Also says there is still a lot of money around, £100k for Nick Whittaker in Huncoat, £250k for Stan Horne in Rishton and £350k for Clayton & Baxenden

[garinda]

Originally Posted by lancsdave

According to His Holiness in this weeks Observer 'Hyndburn residents will not pay a penny more in council tax for 2011/2012'

Also says there is still a lot of money around, £100k for Nick Whittaker in Huncoat, £250k for Stan Horne in Rishton and £350k for Clayton & Baxenden

Hurrah!

There'll still be money for best butter to be lathered on those butties.

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by lancsdave

According to His Holiness in this weeks Observer 'Hyndburn residents will not pay a penny more in council tax for 2011/2012'

Also says there is still a lot of money around, £100k for Nick Whittaker in Huncoat, £250k for Stan Horne in Rishton and £350k for Clayton & Baxenden

£800,000.....where have I heard that figure recently?

Oh yes, savings still to be found.

So he retains control in May with empty promises, doesn't spend the money in those wards after all 'because of the previous Labour government' and saves £800,000.

What a guy!