Hyndburn to be axed. - Page 57

katex · 04-12-2007, 23:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman

well if thats the case claytonender, the only way to democratically stop Ayatolla Britcliffe, is for the electorate of Hyndburn to get up off there Asses,and ensure he cannot get a majority.! and that is from one that wants the change.

Ok Cashman honey .. express your views on why exactly you want this change .. no good just saying you want it ! .. have to back up your views with economical, positive and advantageous 'facts' to our borough. (just what Councillor Britcliffe has neglected to put forward)

Put away all nostalgic thoughts in the cupboard before you report back .. they don't help anyone . x

cashman · 04-12-2007, 23:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by katex

Ok Cashman honey .. express your views on why exactly you want this change .. no good just saying you want it ! .. have to back up your views with economical, positive and advantageous 'facts' to our borough. (just what Councillor Britcliffe has neglected to put forward)

Put away all nostalgic thoughts in the cupboard before you report back .. they don't help anyone . x

if ya want to troll back through 57 pages n find it,carry on

as one who dont believe in waffle when straight to the point will do= i never bloody liked the name.

plus believe in democracy, it should be put to the people.

katex · 04-12-2007, 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by claytonender

Wish I has realised it was you, yes I did get told off for laughing too much at Councillor Britcliffe.

I was the grey haired pensioner in the turquiose(well its sort of that colour) top and black skirt. I wish I had known I would have been traipsing up and down those stairs so amny times - i Would have worn more sensible shoes.

Sat right behind me !! Thanks again though for your knowledge. Yes, you lot were uproarious .. like a mini-House of Commons .. great stuff.

claytonender · 04-12-2007, 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman

well if thats the case claytonender, the only way to democratically stop Ayatolla Britcliffe, is for the electorate of Hyndburn to get up off there Asses,and ensure he cannot get a majority.! and that is from one that wants the change.

Yes through the ballot box is the only way to democratically stop Ayatolla Britcliffe.

It really is stupid that this could have been decided once and for all tonight, but he was not prepared to risk losing the vote. The original proposal was 'To determine whether a proposal to change the name of the Borough is to be taken forward and, if so the basis on which it will be done.' But we are no nearer a resolution to the name change issue than we were before the meeting.

katex · 04-12-2007, 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman

if ya want to troll back through 57 pages n find it,carry on

as one who dont believe in waffle when straight to the point will do= i never bloody liked the name.

plus believe in democracy, it should be put to the people.

Ok .. we agree on the last statement at least.

What quite disturbed me was that both leaders of the Party frequently had to keep reminding the other Councillors that 'we the Public were not thick' and could make our own minds up.

Lilly · 04-12-2007, 23:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by claytonender

It really is stupid that this could have been decided once and for all tonight, but he was not prepared to risk losing the vote. The original proposal was 'To determine whether a proposal to change the name of the Borough is to be taken forward and, if so the basis on which it will be done.' But we are no nearer a resolution to the name change issue than we were before the meeting.

Would you rather the decision had been taken tonight or a referendum for everybody next year?

I would have thought the referendum would please most people.

claytonender · 04-12-2007, 23:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lilly

Would you rather the decision had been taken tonight or a referendum for everybody next year?

I would have thought the referendum would please most people.

I agree that a referendum would please most people, but if it held at some time other than May 1st (which is the date of the elections to HBC) the cost will be quite expensive.

If a decision had been been taken tonight the name of the borough would have remained as Hyndburn - which would have put a stop to all this 'nonsense' - (for want of a better word). And everyone could then get with trying to get investment etc into the borough and concentrating on delivering front line services, rather than spending such disproportionate amount of time concentrating on the name change.

katex · 04-12-2007, 23:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lilly

Would you rather the decision had been taken tonight or a referendum for everybody next year?

I would have thought the referendum would please most people.

What I find strange Lilly is that it is all Party Political .. Labour Councillors on one side and Conservative on the other (yes, of course).

Tonight, there appeared to be 12 Labour, 1 Independent and 16 Conservative (open to correction).

One, presume Labour councillor, had to go due to another appointment half way through the debate .. so Labour were one short vote on Councillor Bott's amendment.

Why do all Conservatives vote solidely and Labour also ? Have they no minds of their own.? Ok . has been explained to me .. but seems to me, even if they don't agree with their party views, just lily-livered to disagree ..

Lilly · 04-12-2007, 23:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by claytonender

I agree that a referendum would please most people, but if it held at some time other than May 1st (which is the date of the elections to HBC) the cost will be quite expensive.

If a decision had been been taken tonight the name of the borough would have remained as Hyndburn - which would have put a stop to all this 'nonsense' - (for want of a better word). And everyone could then get with trying to get investment etc into the borough and concentrating on delivering front line services, rather than spending such disproportionate amount of time concentrating on the name change.

There are people who would like the name change to go ahead though so by having a referendum it gives everybody the chance to vote.

Like you said, if the decision had been taken tonight then that would have been the end of it. I don't know the proportion of people for/against but a referendum just seems fairest to me.

cashman · 04-12-2007, 23:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by claytonender

I agree that a referendum would please most people, but if it held at some time other than May 1st (which is the date of the elections to HBC) the cost will be quite expensive.

that was exactly the point i made a few pages back, also knew it would never happen,disagree with yer " would have put an end to this nonsense" cos offline i know more people that wish to revert back, yet on here its the reverse, so the ONLY way should be a referendum on election day, cos both sides are convinced they will win.

Neil · 05-12-2007, 00:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by katex

just what Councillor Britcliffe has neglected to put forward

At the Oswaldtwistle Area Council meeting last Tuesday the topic of Town Councils was mentioned by Councillor Britcliffe. He made a point of explained that if there was a Town Council they would be able to add a charge onto the Council Tax. He explained that is how it works with Althams Parish Council which I think has been mentioned on here. He also suggested there could be a referendum on the subject as part of next Mays election.

A bit that confused me was that if a Town voted for them they would get them but, if they voted against they would not. I am not sure if that meant some towns could end up with a Town Council whiles others would not depending on how the votes went.

Gary, it is a shame you were not there, your favorite topic of Council supplied but resident looked after handing baskets was also mentioned and might be extended next year

Gayle could confirm this news if she had arrived at the meeting on time

WillowTheWhisp · 05-12-2007, 06:08

And that perfectly illustrates the point that we are talking about two entirely different issues.

The proposed name change need not go ahead in order for the individual towns to have their own councils. For the people who want individual town councils I cannot understand why such independent spirit would settle for being known nationally as an "and district" of Accrington. At present Accrington has its own identity within Hyndburn just as all the other towns do but if the name change goes ahead then all the other towns will be regarded nationally as merely parts of Accrington in much the way that Springhill and Fern Gore are now. Do you really want that? Do you want to lose your identity?

I can't help feeling that by lumping the two issues together it is made to look like this is giving the other towns more of an individual identity when in fact it is doing precisely the opposite.

claytonender · 05-12-2007, 09:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

And that perfectly illustrates the point that we are talking about two entirely different issues.

The proposed name change need not go ahead in order for the individual towns to have their own councils. For the people who want individual town councils I cannot understand why such independent spirit would settle for being known nationally as an "and district" of Accrington. At present Accrington has its own identity within Hyndburn just as all the other towns do but if the name change goes ahead then all the other towns will be regarded nationally as merely parts of Accrington in much the way that Springhill and Fern Gore are now. Do you really want that? Do you want to lose your identity?

I can't help feeling that by lumping the two issues together it is made to look like this is giving the other towns more of an individual identity when in fact it is doing precisely the opposite.

You have explained the issues perfectly. And also highlighted how the people of the other towns feel, that they don't want to be regarded as parts of Accrington. They are proud of where they live and don't want to live in Accrington & the Districts.

Following on from Neil's post - the Act of Parliament allowing the formation of new Parish, Town or community Councils has not yet become law. At the moment a certain percentage of residents of an area need to sign a petition that they would like to form a Parish Council. So Councillor Britcliffe can not promise a referendum in May (he is very good at making promises - but then reneging on them). At last night's Council Metting he proposed setting up a group of councillors to undertake a review of the possibity of setting up a 'Town Council'.

Gayle · 05-12-2007, 09:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil

Gayle could confirm this news if she had arrived at the meeting on time

g jones · 05-12-2007, 11:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by katex

And me Willow

.. I was there and reported as above .. looks like the comment attached to the Lancs. Telegraph report is a falsification.

Sorry, can't just get my head around the final outcome .. honest .. ya' never seem such a politically correct argy bargy with the Conservatives requesting 10 minutes adjornements all the time.

Was proud of Councillor Jones . did a good job .. straight forward, to the point. Councillor Britcliffe quite a comedian with his insults to the opposing party .. obviously well experienced at this, although wasting his breath .. water off a duck's back to the Councillor Jones.

Hope he will come on here and explain it all .. but definitely no decision.

Thank you for your kind words and accurate reporting, unlike the LT article!

The outcome was "To defer the name change at the present time". As was accurately reported Clr Britcliffe's blast was "We will defeat more Labour Councillors in May and then you won't have enough numbers to block the name change".

The referendum in May was voted against because PB did not want Harwooders going to vote in the locals and with a referendum knowing Labour is against and Conservatives for when most Harwooders are against. So it was very political and the anti 1st May referendum not so democratic after all.