Hyndburn to be axed. - Page 59

g jones · 05-12-2007, 22:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

So, are you saying we will not be having a referendum until PB knows he will win?

Not necessarily win. I think it would need to be a decisive result rather than 51-49 for the change to occur but even 60% against and 40% for is not a devastating defeat. Just my thoughts. 51-49 doesn't represent a strong consensus so no change. 40/60 probably does suggest a moderate consensus, enough for change? Probably why the Councillors by statute (on this issue) had to vote by a majority of 2/3rds (67%) for change.

I think PB could afford to lose and fairly say "we asked residents" "opinion was divided" "there was a strong for vote; just not enough". Where he can't afford to lose is in Gt Harwood and Rishton where a NO campaign by Labour, Independents or ANother would result in a whopping defeat, and if the people were voting at local elections that day also, presumedly they would make doubly sure and vote against the Conservatives at the ballot box too, losing PB control of the Council.

In the end that is what defeated this name change (particularly the Gt Harwood Area Council meeting), though Labour Councillors, without a decisive referendum to go by, would have to have made a decision one way or another on what had been discussed. In the end it was decided last week if the public weren't going to get a referendum, then it was a resounding no.

The problem with referendums is they are costly. The local elections provides the only cheap/cheaper way of holding one. Public opinion was divided so a September or March referendum was looking like a costly waste. I guess the ballot of residents would have been similar to the Ob poll, the Area Councils polls and the Accy Web poll. Aggregated, 60% against, 40% for.

WillowTheWhisp · 05-12-2007, 22:19

So where does that leave us now?

g jones · 06-12-2007, 07:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

So where does that leave us now?

My personal opinion is PB accepts no-one getting in his way, he has been ruthless and the Tories now have two or three factions fighting each other behind the scenes. His life is dedicated to destroying the Labour Party. The words of one his Conservative colleagues. As well as enjoying the ego of power. I guess he is seeking revenge now, that's how he works in my opinion. Anyone that murmurs YOU SILLY COW during a debate is obviously taking it very personally. He then whispered to Pam Barton (Lab) whom all have agreed will be next years Mayor "I might just take it off you (for this)". He then forcefully stated he would defeat Labour Councillors in May and he said to Labour Councillors (quote LT)

"We have gone from a proposed referendum (a lie) for the public to decide on a name change to a dictatorial decision by the minority of the council (Labours 1/3rd blocking any future change after he defeated Labours referendum proposal). We have asked you to listen to those who say what's best for the regeneration of the borough (ie we will change the name to Accrington+). He warned the opposition: "You can't take the public for granted. We will take a decision in spite of you. (which he can't because he doesn't have 2/3rds majority YET)."

He then stated that he would wipe out in May Labour's 1/3rd of Councillors who were blocking the name change and then his Party would not be dictated to by a minority. The resolution his Party voted through was not for a referendum but 1) To put on hold at the present time the renaming of the Borough. 2) to set up a Referendum Panel to discuss the wording for the Town Council question and carry on looking into the change of name of the Borough to Accrington & District.

Synopsis; He has always wanted the name change. He ordered a referendum in 2000 which he lost. He tried to do this one through the back door using Area Councils and soft soaping Labour Councillors to avoid inevitable defeat in a referendum. See earlier in the thread... the back door negotiations, free votes, side deals that went on etc.. He refuse's to lose in anything he does and the new tactic is to win two more Labour seats in May to force through the name change in June/July as he said at the meeting. By saying it is over for now was conceitful. Katex, would you agree with what I have put as far as the events????

MargaretR · 06-12-2007, 08:04

Looks like megalomania to me

claytonender · 06-12-2007, 10:10

Yesterday there was an online poll on the Lancashire Telegraph website, I have just checked the result.
36 people voted
27 voted against the name change (75%)
9 voted in fayour of the name change (25%)

Neil · 06-12-2007, 10:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by claytonender

Yesterday there was an online poll on the Lancashire Telegraph website, I have just checked the result.
36 people voted
27 voted against the name change (75%)
9 voted in fayour of the name change (25%)

A massive 36 people who could be bothered to vote.

I can't help think that the majority of the Borough really don't give a monkeys about any of this. It looks like a small minority of the Borough are fighting about this while the rest of the residents either don't know about it or don't really care.

lancsdave · 06-12-2007, 10:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil

A massive 36 people who could be bothered to vote.

I can't help think that the majority of the Borough really don't give a monkeys about any of this. It looks like a small minority of the Borough are fighting about this while the rest of the residents either don't know about it or don't really care.

I think your'e right Neil.

Maybe the poll should ask the question, " Would you like to see your council tax spent on changing the name of the borough or spent on essential services". I suspect the poll would then be conclusive anyway.

g jones · 06-12-2007, 10:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by lancsdave

I think your'e right Neil.

Maybe the poll should ask the question, " Would you like to see your council tax spent on changing the name of the borough or spent on essential services". I suspect the poll would then be conclusive anyway.

I think that is a great question LancsDave. Probably sums up the feelings of people well. I think similarly there are red herrings in the Town Council debate as well.

WillowTheWhisp · 06-12-2007, 12:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by g jones

"We have gone from a proposed referendum (a lie) for the public to decide on a name change to a dictatorial decision by the minority of the council (Labours 1/3rd blocking any future change after he defeated Labours referendum proposal). We have asked you to listen to those who say what's best for the regeneration of the borough (ie we will change the name to Accrington+). He warned the opposition: "You can't take the public for granted. We will take a decision in spite of you. (which he can't because he doesn't have 2/3rds majority YET)."

Wasn't it more like a dictatorial desire to go ahead with the name change and him and his crowd not wanting a referendum?

Who says it's best for the regeneration of the borough? He's just got a bee in his bonnet about it and won't accept that it's a pointless waste of time.

It sounds to me like he is the one who is taking the public for granted and to make a statement like "We will take a decision in spite of you." is such utter unbelievable arrogance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lancsdave

I think your'e right Neil.

Maybe the poll should ask the question, " Would you like to see your council tax spent on changing the name of the borough or spent on essential services". I suspect the poll would then be conclusive anyway.

When I asked something like that I was told it was a loaded question.

I don't visit the telegraph site on a regular basis so I didn't vote. No doubt there are many other residents who don't visit the site, not to mention those who don't have internet access or don't even have a PC. (yes there are some). There will be people out there who aren't even aware yet of this silly idea and I dread to think how it would be worded in a referendum.

Would you:
A) Like to change the name to Accrington and District and generate lots of new input into the local economy?
B) Like to stagnate as Hyndburn?

OR

Would you:
A) Like to waste time and money changing the name of the borough to Accrington & District
B) Leave well alone and concentrate effort on promoting the borough and attracting more interest?

See what a difference the wording makes.

Lilly · 06-12-2007, 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by claytonender

Lily, no one is claiming to be whiter than white, but being extemely rude in a very public arena (with members of the public present), is completely unacceptable.

I was at the count as well in May, there was also bad behaviour from the Conservatives - with football style chants.

Also Peter Britcliffe attempted to go into the centre of the room, where the votes were being counted (which is not allowed unless you are an agent of one of the candidates).The agent for the Conservative Party candidates was Marlene Howarth - so she was the only member of the Conservative PArty allowed in the middle of the counting area. I assume that you are unfamiliar with the rules governing the conduct of count.

I admit that I was unfamiliar. I soon learnt though. What an eye-opener, and not a pleasant one at that.

It seems to me that the main goal is to get one over on the opposition.

I didn't hear the football chants but did see PB in the counting area. I couldn't agree more with what you say about unacceptable behaviour in a public arena. Here's one example of unacceptable behaviour for you from me.

Re Marlene Haworth, when she offered her hand and her commiserations to the Labour leader over a lost Labour seat, the Labour leader wouldn't shake her hand and told her to f off.

Several people heard this and were embarrassed.

What I'm trying to convey is that there are many barbed comments and much sniping galore between the two main parties.

All this doesn't matter, our towns do, but Graham Jones is quick to point out all the comments directed at him but not so quick to advertise those he has made. I just wanted to illustrate how bad it seems things are between them. There is no innocent party.

It's time it all stopped but I won't hold my breath. Is this what politics is like in general? It's a wonder anything gets done.

WillowTheWhisp · 06-12-2007, 17:54

Have you never heard how they behave in the House of Commons? Worse than primary school children.

katex · 06-12-2007, 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

Happy now, "Little Hyndburners"?

A little aside .. sounds better than 'Little Accrington and Districters' how hard is that one on yer tonsils ... say it 10 times quickly and see what it turns into ....

(shall I post in the over 18's ?)

Will finish up as Accringtonians for sure. !

Yes, Graham .. as a novice onlooker at Council Meetings, couldn't help but pick up that Councillor Britcliffe would go to great lengths to get his own way in any way shape or form. References to Gordon Brown and his failure to recognise to call a General Election, etc., seemed out of place on what could be an issue extremely costly to the people of Hyndburn and felt like shouting from the Gallery to "Get on with it man" (time is money !). I am sure though, that in a really valid proposal for Hyndburn he would be a great asset, so nothing personal against him .. just misguided on this one.

Wynonie Harris · 06-12-2007, 22:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by katex

A little aside .. sounds better than 'Little Accrington and Districters' how hard is that one on yer tonsils ... say it 10 times quickly and see what it turns into ....

(shall I post in the over 18's ?)

Will finish up as Accringtonians for sure. !

...and I sincerely hope it does! I'm in full agreement with Greg Pope's idea that they should call the whole borough "Accrington"!

g jones · 07-12-2007, 10:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lilly

Here's one example of unacceptable behaviour for you from me. Re Marlene Haworth, when she offered her hand and her commiserations to the Labour leader over a lost Labour seat, the Labour leader wouldn't shake her hand and told her to f off.
(

This was a load of nonsense. It was embellished and exaggerated and a report sent by Marlene and the Tories to the Standards Board for England to gain a political advantage. It was thrown out by them as 'a nothing incident' in the report. I shook everybodies hand, congratulated Jean the Tory winner, refused to shake Marlene's, her agent aside of her as she had been directing a string of sarcastic insults as we walked towards the returning officer about winners and losers, about the people choosing rightly her party and they would be running the Council because of their superiority. This carried on as she tried to shake my hand. I just thought "no". I muttered something only Jean, Marlene and John heard and it was not f-off because it ws a private response not a public one.

Someone's been telling you a load of old porkies Lilly or your a card carrying Tory member.

g jones · 07-12-2007, 12:27

SHOULD HAVE READ..... I muttered something only Jean, Marlene and John heard and it was not f-off, that's untrue as I don't use that particular word/phrase and don't swear in public. It was also a private and reactionary response to Marlene, not a public one. The returning officer did not hear it 6 feet away.

I would add that the Tories fought a outragous election based on lies. Labour Councillors in Hyndburn to introduce Rubbish Taxes. Tories build the two new health centres... They were lying on the phone to residents. Marlene lied about her role in the Taxi fiasco... It's hard to respect those in public who abuse trust.