I almost daren't post this... - Page 5

garinda · 01-02-2006, 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle

It's all very well to sit in your rooms typing into a computer that things are rubbish, things aren't going well but what are you actually doing to make things right?

In a democracy consructive criticism can be useful, no matter where it comes from.

I feel more than happy in my criticism of the state of the arts scene in Hyndburn compared with twenty odd years ago. Basically then it was varied and challenging, now it isn't.

Gayle · 01-02-2006, 23:02

But I think you're confusing the Arts scene with things that are being put on for your entertainment (which I agree is dire) and projects that are working with different groups of the community at different times.

garinda · 01-02-2006, 23:11

No I'm not.

Twenty years ago the Haworth Art Gallery still was used for community exhibitions, under the curatorship of Norman Potts, but it also showed some challenging art as well. In even the kindest terms, the exhibits that are at all good, are few and far between to say the least.

Theatre.

Where are the professional touring companies that we had in Hyndburn twenty years ago? I saw some innovative and challenging dance and theatre productions.

Where's any new public art of any note, besides the much debated Pantopican?

There isn't any.

Other towns and cities have moved on and embraced art. Hyndburn hasn't. All aided I've found out today, by four salaried members of our Council.

Neil · 01-02-2006, 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle

It's all very well to sit in your rooms typing into a computer that things are rubbish, things aren't going well but what are you actually doing to make things right?

Arrrgghhhh I am in agreement with you on that point Gayle.

I just typed a big winge in but then thought better of it and deleted it so as not to upset the local people we need to help us

Gayle · 01-02-2006, 23:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

No I'm not.

Twenty years ago the Haworth Art Gallery still was used for community exhibitions, under the curatorship of Norman Potts, but it also showed some challenging art as well. In even the kindest terms, the exhibits that are at all good, are few and far between to say the least.

can't comment on the gallery - it's under funded and under promoted by the Council

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

Theatre.

Where are the professional touring companies that we had in Hyndburn twenty years ago? I saw some innovative and challenging dance and theatre productions.

this is where you are getting confused - the Arts Development team, as I have said quite a few times, are not responsible for booking touring professional theatre acts. That is a whole other department and I have agreed with you that we don't get the sort of high quality theatre that we should in this town but it's not the Arts Dev team's fault - that's not in their remit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

Where's any new public art of any note, besides the much debated Pantopican?

There isn't any.

again, not the fault of the arts dev team. This is the Council squashing anything and everything that is proposed to them

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

Other towns and cities have moved on and embraced art. Hyndburn hasn't.

can't argue with you on that, totally right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

All aided I've found out today, by four salaried members of our Council.

So not true. The arts dev team have been working with young people, working with community groups, setting up a theatre, producing festivals and events. This is their job and they've been doing it very well. You are neither a young person or involved in the sort of stuff that they do. That's fine but you can't fault them for doing what they were employed to do and you're going to have to trust me on this but a lot of people WILL miss them.

This area is a big black hole where art is concerned, I haven't disagreed with you on that. We need to embrace arts and culture in order to kick start regeneration but under this council's current regime that is never going to happen.

You can not fault the arts dev team for things that are lacking that do not come under their remit. And if you remove them then you are doubly compounding the problem and there will be even less, if any, arts provision in this area.

garinda · 01-02-2006, 23:33

Thanks but I'm totally confused now.

So HBC employs four arts developments workers, but I wouldn't have heard of them because I'm not a youth? Doesn't make them more youth workers than arts workers?

Their 'remit' isn't to attract art to Hyndburn? Well it should be.

This is where it gets personal I'm afraid. Thinking back, all the touring productions I saw in Hyndburn twenty years ago were put on by Mid Pennine Arts. Are we now missing out because most things seem to be centred in Burnley?

The arts scene in Hynburn is sadly lacking. The people here aren't Philistines just because the majority of people weren't in favour of the proposed Pantopican. Nearly everyone who objected did so on aesthetic grounds, or because it would blight a much loved landmark. Most people were in favour of public art as long as it was good, ie: Gorman's figures at Formby, which we've both mentioned before as being good.

The arts developments people, whatever their 'remit' should perhaps be working alongside other council departments more.

Doug · 01-02-2006, 23:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

Other towns and cities have moved on and embraced art. Hyndburn hasn't. All aided I've found out today, by four salaried members of our Council.

This is where inertia comes into it. To have these things you have to have public interest and that appears to be distinctly lacking. If the theatre going public showed demand you’d get companies showing equal interest.

Hyndburn had strong theatrical links throughout the 20th century and has you quite rightly say up to about 20 or 30 years ago. But things change, tastes change.

Public Art is on the increase, usually linked to redevelopment or regeneration projects, but again the public have got to want it and demonstrate an interest.

You’ve got to align yourself with interest groups and work with the council teams to achieve what you want. Not sitting at home demanding to know why your insignificant contribution is being spent on the very people you decrying.

Doug · 01-02-2006, 23:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

Thanks but I'm totally confused now.

So HBC employs four arts developments workers, but I wouldn't have heard of them because I'm not a youth? Doesn't make them more youth workers than arts workers?

I think the confusion is in the definition of Arts and Culture?

garinda · 01-02-2006, 23:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug

This is where inertia comes into it. To have these things you have to have public interest and that appears to be distinctly lacking. If the theatre going public showed demand you’d get companies showing equal interest.

Hyndburn had strong theatrical links throughout the 20th century and has you quite rightly say up to about 20 or 30 years ago. But things change, tastes change.

Public Art is on the increase, usually linked to redevelopment or regeneration projects, but again the public have got to want it and demonstrate an interest.

You’ve got to align yourself with interest groups and work with the council teams to achieve what you want. Not sitting at home demanding to know why your insignificant contribution is being spent on the very people you decrying.

I totally disagree.

How can people go to see things at the theatre when they are not offered it? Especially when we have people employed on our behalf to do just that. People's tastes haven't changed that much in twenty years, sadly they just have to go further afield to see things of note, when it used to be on our doorstop, and yes it was well attended.

Public art is not on the increase in Hyndburn Doug. A bit of machinery set on a pavement, or a sad little mosaic by a skateboard ring is not art. Like I said other places of a similar size has managed to attract good art by renowned artists, and theatre of note. Hyndburn has not, and from the look of it the future looks even bleaker.

garinda · 01-02-2006, 23:46

Sly little digs that criticism is not allowed because of lack of involvement is totally uncalled for.

Doug · 01-02-2006, 23:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

Sly little digs that criticism is not allowed because of lack of involvement is totally uncalled for.

Now I'm confused? Who what and when did I are anyone else made sly little digs......I thought we where Having a discussion...........

Forgive me if I have misled you. I meant to say that in general, Public Art is on the Increase, I didn’t intend to imply that it was on increase in Hyndburn which clearly it’s not. Perhaps through the lack of public demand.

Doug · 01-02-2006, 23:55

Public Theatre is subject to market forces like any other business. If the demand isn’t strong or present then it diminishes.

garinda · 01-02-2006, 23:58

No the demand is stil the same, whats on offer has diminished. People just have to travel further because Hyndburn hasn't kept pace, or decided money should be spent on other things.

garinda · 02-02-2006, 00:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug

Public Theatre is subject to market forces like any other business. If the demand isn’t strong or present then it diminishes.

That's wrong. Twenty years ago the productions that came here were very well attended. Since that time the population has increased, unempolyment is down, and people have more leisure time.

Bolton has a wonderful arts and theatre scene. Their council invested and encouraged, and offers people what they want, and it's very well attended, Hyndburn Council has not.

garinda · 02-02-2006, 00:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle

can't comment on the gallery - it's under funded and under promoted by the Council

So the four Arts Development team should be working with them. Who else is employed by the Council in the arts in Hyndburn then? There's more than the mentioned four? God this is getting worse.