I Don't Like Complaining.

[Gayle]

Whenever I complain I always make sure I know exactly what I want out of it. For instance, if I write a letter I end it with

"I expect £90 compensation for the damaged map and briefcase and an apology. Please respond within seven days."

[Busman747]

Thank you all for your advice, I will let you know if I have any success. Here are the photos of the offending cans!

[Madhatter]

jeez busman, that would need a lot of pressure to do that. If you don't get any joy, you really should go trading standards. That looks like a faulty can or something wrong with the drink. did it taste ok?

I thought you said it hadn't exploded. Your wrong, the pressure to push that up, and then open that seems and push that lid that far up would need an enormous amount of pressure. More than shaking a can up. By the way you were saying it had just pushed a gap where the ring pull is and leaked out slowly. What if the whole lid had come off?

[andrewb]

If it was a small independant store I would leave it, but Tesco can afford to replace the cans and the maps, and it's their own brand of can which have done it, so everything should be replaced. It sometimes seems hard to complain, but in the end, theres nothing the person can say even if you visit the store again, because he'd likely lose his job

Complain away!

[cherokee]

tesco i believe made a massive profit last year, and looking at those cans its not surprising. i agree if you dont get anywhere with tesco i would be intouch with trading standards but i wouldnt sit on it much longer .. ive had dealings with trading standerd people and they dont mess about .

[jambutty]

If memory serves me well cans containing fizzy drinks are constructed so that they remain intact if left in direct sunlight for several hours. So your cans were not fit for purpose. I mean how hot can it get in the boot of a car. 50 C max I should imagine.

My guess is that either the cans were made of thinner metal or were over-gassed and the combination of movement and heat caused the explosion. But as many people have pointed out when you buy a can to take home it will suffer movement and heat so the real culprit would be one or both of the two former suggestions. Thus Tesco has an obligation to accept liability and compensate you fully.

But there is an art to complaining.

Before you complain get the facts firmly committed to memory and if there are any documents or physical evidence have it to hand but do not let the other side take possession of any documents. Give them a copy. If you have to hand over an item, like your cans, get a signed receipt that describes EXACTLY what it is you are handing over. Your photos are OK as far as it goes but you need them to be signed by the recipient of the cans.

NEVER LOSE YOUR TEMPER. Always remain cold, calm and collected. Do not ask questions. Things like, “What do you expect me to do now?” It only invites answers that tend to get you off topic. Keep rigidly to the provable facts and don’t allow yourself to be dragged off topic. Do not threaten with comments like, “I’ll go to Trading Standards” although you might like to drop a hint like “I will exercise my remaining options.” It leaves them guessing what you will do next. A good general never tells the enemy what he is going to do next. He allows it to come as a surprise that could panic the enemy into conceding. If the person who you are complaining to does not or cannot resolve the issue to your satisfaction your reaction should be, “Get the person who has the authority to resolve this issue”. No senior manager would leave his post without leaving someone with full authority to act in his absence so they can’t put you off by saying that the senior manager is away.

If you still get no satisfaction locally write to the CEO of the company and furnish details of your complaint. It isn’t very likely that the CEO will actually read your letter but one of his minions will, which is just almost as good. If you can find out the names of the board of directors send them a copy. You never know they may be plotting to get rid of the CEO.

Add to your letter something like this:
“Is this how you expect your management to treat your customers who are the lifeblood of your business?”

5 years ago I found myself in need of a new washer/dryer so I went to Curry’s as they were having a sale. Also any washer more than £300 would be delivered free. I chose an Indesit for £310 and that’s when things started to go wrong.

They would not guarantee a delivery time other than sometime on xxxxxxx. No matter how I tried I could not pin them down to a morning or afternoon. In the end they said that I should ring the warehouse in Leeds. After much discussion I got them to ring Leeds from in store and hand the phone over to me. During the ensuing discussion when they still insisted that they couldn’t specify a time of the day they let it slip that they had a vacant spot on a particular afternoon. I got my delivery for that particular afternoon.

But it didn’t end there. The washer arrived early evening. After reading the manual, I unpacked it and fitted it into place. In went some washing, the dials were set and I went off to watch TV. After a couple of hours or so I opened the door to find the washing cold and wet. The drying heater was obviously duff.

Next day I rang Currys but then you could only get to their main office and not the store. They would pass on a message. Instead I went back to Currys got hold of a manager and told him that the washing machine was duff.
“We will send round an engineer to repair it.”
“No you won’t” I replied, “I don’t buy faulty goods. You will send someone round to take it away and replace it with a good one.”
“We can’t do that sir. We don’t have that model in stock. You bought the last one.”
“When will you have some more in stock?”
“We don’t know.”
“OK! I will accept a full refund. Here’s my credit card.”
“We have to inspect the faulty machine to verify that it is faulty before we can offer a replacement.”
“I don’t want a replacement I want a full refund.”
“We have to inspect the faulty machine to verify that it is faulty before we can offer a refund.”
When can it be collected?”
“Next Thursday.”
“Morning or afternoon?”
“We cannot say. It will be some time on Thursday.”
Intense feeling of de ja vous. After much discussion where I might add that though I was boiling inside I was as cool as a cucumber on the outside we arrived at a morning collection.
Come the morning of collection a guy declared, “I’ve come to mend your washer”
“Oh no you haven’t. You’ve come to verify that it is duff.”
Much discussion and a lengthy phone call to his boss and he left a document declaring that he had inspected the machine and the drying heater was faulty and took the machine away.
Next day back to Currys clutching the chit. The manager that I spoke with the previous day looked me straight in the eye and walked past me. Rather fast I thought. So I collared another floor manager and explained the situation to her. She must have been privy to what had gone on before because she took one look at my stern face, asked for my credit card and made the refund.

I should just add that before leaving for Currys this final time I have made myself a tabard out of an old sheet with CURRYS HAVE ROBBED ME in large black letters on the back and something similar on the front. The idea being that if I got any more delaying tactics from them I would put the tabard on and wander around the store until something happened.

Shame they paid up so easily in the end. I was really in the mood for a major confrontation.

The moral of the story – stick to your guns come hell or high water.

[Madhatter]

Once you say your not satisfied with the Quality jambutty, they have to by law give you a refund wether they say it's faulty or not. Thats part of your statutory rights.
Wish there were more like you Jam butty, then perhaps I wouldn't find that 99.9% of the stuff I buy is faulty.

[MUMMIBOO]

Originally Posted by Madhatter

Once you say your not satisfied with the Quality jambutty, they have to by law give you a refund wether they say it's faulty or not. Thats part of your statutory rights.
Wish there were more like you Jam butty, then perhaps I wouldn't find that 99.9% of the stuff I buy is faulty.

I dont mean to sound rude Madhatter but i think you are slighlty mislead on that one you cant return everything by law just because you say you are not happy with the quality it all depends on the item, say for instance you bought a swimming pool and on the box it describes the pool perfectly, you take the pool home and you play in it and then you think well actually i thought it was going to be better quality than what it is then you go to return it saying that the quality was not as expected do you think you will get a refund?

I doubt it not on those terms but if the pool was unused in original packaging with your receipt as proof of purchase then you might stand a chance as the pool was not used and it is in saleable condition in most cases there is no refund policy for items which are not fauly only a faulty returns policy, in most cases it would be at the stores discretion if you wanted a refund after 28 days and you had you receipt.

If you are wanting to return items to a shop you should always keep your receipt no matter how small your item or how cheap, your receipt is your proof of purchase how easy would it be for a shopliffter to come into store and steal goods and then at a later date try to return the item? or to buy an item from say ebay at half price and then go and try to take it back to the shop for a full credit refund?

If Jambutty wanted a refund in my shop i would now certainly know it was him as in my 5 years on customer service i have never had anyone come into the shop with a list of things to say and if anyone stood their ground by refusing what was being offered then lets just say site security would be called to remove the offending person out of the shop as for parading around the shop with a tabbard stating they had been the victim of crime well that would be funny!

[jambutty]

You are entitled to a refund if the item that you buy is not of merchantable quality Madhatter or fit for purpose if you like and that is in spite of what some shops display about refunds and returned goods. Those notices have no authority in law and are put in place to try and dissuade a customer from demanding a refund. The various guarantees offered by the manufacturer do not even come into the equation. In fact when you take out one of those repair insurance things that are pushed in your face, if you do take one out you effectively sign away your right to a refund.

You cannot demand a refund if you consider the item to be of poor quality, there has to be something wrong with it or you can establish that it is not factory new. Your opinion of poor quality is just that, your opinion and to make that one stick you have to get an expert in that field to testify on your behalf.

You do not have to produce a receipt to make your claim. There are other ways to prove that the bought item came from a particular store and you paid for it. However a receipt does establish without question where you bought the item.

In spite of what some stores state, you do not have to return the packaging but you do have to return any extras, like manuals, leads, pipes etc. However if you do have the box the item came in and all its insides the store will be more inclined to give a refund more readily and you won’t have to argue your case over a protracted period of time.

You can return an item and demand a full refund without reason providing that the packaging has not been opened, you can establish without a doubt that you bought the item in that shop and it is within the time specified – usually 7 days. This applies particularly to CD’s, DVD’s and software. Once the seal has been broken you can only claim a REPLACEMENT if the contents are duff. This is to prevent copying.

There is no time limit on when you can return the goods. But that will depend on the item and its record of reliability. Today you can buy a TV or radio and the like and expect them to last for several years before being in need of a repair. If it develops a fault after two years you can still claim a full refund. Whether you get it or not is up to the store as they will argue that it will be repaired. You have to argue back or accept a repair. If you buy the latest gizmo that does not have a reliability record, like TV’s in times gone by, your refund time is limited to the duration of the manufacturer’s guarantee. In the old days, valves and the tube were not guaranteed because it was an established fact that they deteriorate over an unspecified period of time. Even today you have no refund rights on light bulbs except for the new low energy long lasting types, which carry a guarantee of life.

A store can insist on having an engineer inspect the item to establish that the fault you describe is a reality. This could mean the item being returned to the manufacturer but not at your expense. Your claim is against the seller and no one else so if the shop wants verification of faulty goods it is up to the shop to bear the cost, not you or accept your word.

However the Sale of Goods Act does not apply to motor vehicles but can apply to second hand goods. That will depend on what the terms of sale are. An item sold ‘as new’ or ‘nearly new’ takes on the mantle of being fit for purpose over a period of time applicable to the new item.

I never said that I had a list of things to say MUMMIBOO. What I did say was that I had the facts firmly in my head and any documents necessary to hand. Please read what was written and not put your own spin on what you think your read.

You may well have 5 years experience of customer service but I have very nearly 52 years experience as an adult customer. I’ve been round the ‘buying goods’ block many times and encountered shop keepers with varying attitudes to returned goods. If a customer is entitled to a refund by law and the shop refuses and offers a repair or a replacement then I will stand my ground in any shop come what may. They can send for all the security they like but it wouldn’t put me off and woe betide anyone who laid a finger on me. Adding assault to refusing to comply with the law would make an interesting case and the shop would lose.

Your attitude to customer complaints MUMMIBOO is typical of many stores and they get away with it because most customers are wimps and will complain to their spouse/neighbours but melt when confronted with a store manager.

But answer me one thing. If perchance someone returned faulty goods to your store and forced you to make a refund, what happens to the defective item? I KNOW what should happen! I also KNOW what does happen and it is not the same thing. Many years ago when Comet had a small shop on Darwen Street in Blackburn with the main warehouse in Wigan I was the hi fi salesman. We had customers bring back equipment that had failed and they got a refund or a replacement. The defective item went upstairs to be repaired by the resident engineer and put back in its box ready to be sold to the next mug. Sorry I mean customer.

My son recently managed to persuade me to get a mobile phone so that on the few occasions that I am away from my flat I could call for help should I ever need it. To placate his concern I bought one from Play.com in Jersey and within a few days it arrived. The box was torn and the seal was broken. The Simm card had been removed from its plastic holder and put back in an attempt to make it look like it had never been removed. The battery was not in the slot designed for it in the packaging and the mobile phone’s cover was separated from the phone and stowed loose in the box. On inspection there were tiny scratches on the battery contacts indicating that it had been put in place at some time. There were similar scratches on the Simm card. Obviously the phone had been despatched to someone at some time and had been returned for some reason so when I ordered it they just sent it on to me. This happens far more often than people realise.

The phone went back as quickly as it came and within 5 days my credit card was reimbursed and so was the postage that it cost me to return it plus a verbal apology over the phone when I first breached the complaint.

Several years ago I bought a TV from Comet (my favourite electrical retailer) but when I got it home it turned out that when reading Ceefax or Teletext many of the letters were not being displayed. I knew that a weak signal could be the cause but by borrowing my daughter’s TV I established that weak signal was not the cause. My TV in her house still had missing letters. The manageress at Comet tried to argue against making a refund but as I knew that they had in house engineers I insisted that one of them came out, plugged the TV in and saw for himself that my complaint was justified. When the manageress saw the defect with her own eyes she had no option but to make a refund – although it was with bad grace.

The other side of the Comet coin is that when my old fridge freezer died a couple of years back, Comet bent over backwards to deliver the one that I bought to replace my dead one so that I could get my frozen goods back into a freezer before they melted. They even knocked me something off the price because it was the only model that they had and it had been on display and they didn’t make a delivery charge either. Two of their staff volunteered to make the delivery in their own transit van and the manager gave them time off in the late morning to do so. I had to insist that they accept a tenner each for their trouble.

Now that is customer service.

[Madhatter]

If something is faulty, and you are not satisfied with the quality all you have to do is say you are not happy with the quality and you are entitled to your money back, they can not make you have a repair or another replacement new item. You don't have to prove that it's faulty, thats the shops responsibility to prove it isn't.

As for the reciept. you don't need a reciept, all you need to do is prove that that item came from that store. for example if I buy something from argos, and its in an argos box, then that is sufficent proof. You do need proof of the purchase price if its different to what it is now though. If you bought it at full price and return it without a reciept, the shop will give you the current sale price.
If I was going to steal one, I'd buy one, the go back in to the store pick one up and ask for a refund on my reciept.

The 16 day refund gaurantee is misused by argos as an excuse to not give you your money back for faulty items after 16 days. Don't be conned into believing it. Thats a refund gaurantee for non faulty items in new condition with reciept for money or without for current price in vouchers.
If it's faulty it doesn't apply.
If for example you buy a clock with automatic month change and after a month the month hasn't changed, that would be over 16 days, but your still entitled to your money back, because it's a reasonable amount of time for the fault in question.

Thats repeated some of what you've said Jambutty, but never mind.

I too think shops have a fob you off attitude, they lie, are argumentative to cause a situation where security can be called, obstructive, and will find any excuse so as to not give you what you desserve.
It took us over a year to get a new matress out of alders, The bed cost 700, which was half price ten years ago, just before a year was up, the stitching on the matress quilting started to come undone. By the time we'd finished arguing that the company warranty being 6 months out of date didn't mean we should accept a substandard that would reasonably last for years not months, and got it replaced, we'd had the bed three yr's.

This pc i'm on from cpc is another nightmare. They're supposed to be factory reconditioned. In actual fact, windows is just reset. I've had, 1, 2, and 3 computers 1 and 2 returned, 3 was supposed to be repaired, but got lost, I ordered another and got one back I'd had before. I know, I know where the scratches were on the case. I've still got it, broken, I'm not sure waht to do now.

[katex]

Bought a mower Tuesday, 'cause decided that as grass up to waist, got to do something about it. Have a mower somewhere, think in next door's shed, but they away; did have gardner, but think he has sacked me due to misunderstanding (if anyone here requires a gardening job, please pm me).

Back to the point, bought one at Homebase. Oh yes, have to put the bloody thing together !! Having a logical mind, did understand, but the grass box ... Oh, deary me, engaging plastic with a '>> ' (read the De Vinci Code to understand this) fastener proved extremely difficult.

Spent a frustrating hour trying to get these together, finished up talking to the ducks which flew next to me in sympathy nodding their heads in tuts. Had had a little wine so by 10 o'clock gave up this enterprise.

Took into work yesterday and not even the strong hand males could do this, and believe me they tried, macho thing.

Ok, nowt for it, but to bravely stride into Homebase customer services to see what they could do. Sent for Mr. Mahmood .. handsome young man who struggled, but eventually managed with a screwdriver. However, realised the molding was not good and exchanged without a word of adversity and a smile.

Not all the same are they Busman ?

[garinda]

I bet Mummiboo has a lot more success at returning faulty goods than Jambutty. Charm goes a hell of a lot further than spouting off your rights, trust me I've seen it from both sides.

Hatter, like Jambutty said it's about the merchantable quality of the goods sold, not if you satisfied with the quality of what you have bought once you've returned home.

This thread seems to be concentrating on electronic and white goods but this thread was started about a faulty can of Coke. The same principles apply about merchantable quality if you are purchasing a cabbage or a Cadillac.

[Madhatter]

You'll find your wrong. something sold must be of merchantable quality. thats got nothing to do with you not being satisfied with the quality, and therefore having the right to refuse a repair or replacement for something that is faulty or not of merchantable quality.
Read up on it. your rights to refuse a repair or replacement.

ummiboo would end up getting fobbed off with a repair. which usually means yours gets put on the end of the repair waiting list, and you get someone elses thats been repaired and could have been used for 11 months.

The pc above had already been out before I got it, then i used it for 2 months, then I returned it and waited 6 weeks and got the same pc back as a new refurbished one, that is one that is sold as a new one sent out to one customer, then returned for repair of that one fault. I got it back, I've struggled to use it for 2 months, if i send it back no doubt It will get sent out again. SO how many times has it been out before I got it. 5? 10? 20? 30?

Isn't this thread about consumers rights and the way we get conned, untill such time as busman gets an answer.

[garinda]

I do know what I'm on about thank you. I was the Creative Director for a famous fashion store for seventeen years, so I know all about retail law.


You said-[quote]
'Once you say your not satisfied with the Quality jambutty, they have to by law give you a refund wether they say it's faulty or not. Thats part of your statutory rights.'



You are wrong there. It's not your satisfaction with the quality it's about the merchantable quality as Jambutty said, which is totally different.

For instance if you buy a scarf and it says handwash and thats what you do and it falls to bits, you are entitled to a full refund. If you get the scarf home and think the quality of this cashmere scarf isn't as soft as I was expecting you haven't got a leg to stand on.

Moral is buyer beware but know your rights.

[Madhatter]

read up on it.
You are not automatically entitled to a refund just because the item you got isn't of merchantable quality, they can offer a repair or exchange. Once you say your not satisfied with the quality of the product in general you are entitled to your money back.