I find it hard to believe this ... - Page 3

cmonstanley · 17-01-2011, 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay

But for major corporations there wouldn't be any flaming jobs in the first place

major corporations dont employ in this country any more,they are all in the middle east. they will soon find out it has been against their best interests as people will not be able to afford to buy their products and they will have less profit

if they did employ large amounts of people as in the past there would be less crime , less people on the benefits, and some kind of structure to a lot more people who were employed.

garinda · 17-01-2011, 23:56

'The MPs cite evidence from one patients’ group that people are already suffering as hip replacement operations are postponed and referrals for pain treatments are not being carried out. As a result of the turmoil, some PCTs are reportedly now only offering to carry out one cataract operation on patients who require treatment to both eyes.'
Patients miss operations as Government 'tosses grenade' into NHS - Telegraph

Nevermind the 'In the kingdom of the blind, the one eyed man is king' guff.

Perhaps we are entering the sorry state of 'If we cure the blindness in just one of your eyes, count yourself lucky'.

Alan Varrechia · 18-01-2011, 00:35

I've just had a look at the future through a pair of tory coloured spectacles like Jasay and a few others wear and the future looks good and rosie, pity reality looks a whole lot differant.

garinda · 18-01-2011, 00:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Varrechia

I've just had a look at the future through a pair of tory coloured spectacles like Jasay and a few others wear and the future looks good and rosie, pity reality looks a whole lot differant.

Even rose tinted spectacles won't help you see, if you're unlucky enough to have cataracts.

Alan Varrechia · 18-01-2011, 01:08

I feel It will be 13 years of labours fault. Repeat ad nausium....

garinda · 18-01-2011, 01:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Varrechia

I feel It will be 13 years of labours fault. Repeat ad nausium....

It's been downhill ever since the great unwashed were foolishly given the right to vote.

BERNADETTE · 18-01-2011, 01:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

Sadly the cuts will affect front-line staff, and therefore patient care, instead of the myriad of well paid pen-pushers, who will escape unscathed.

And this hasn't been happennig for the last fifteen years at least? Watching the news tonight I was dismayed to hear that GP's were to be given extra diagnostic power when I've seen that "power" fail at least twice in the past. Surely we need specialist's in place not GP's who IMHO don't know which route to take?

Having had two family members who diagnosed with a "hiatus hernia" rather than the bowel cancer they had, how can things improve??? Personally I have found that we have to push for every different procedure, ie any scan that Yanto needed I had to push for. Would the outcome be any different?? Who knows???

Whilst we as a nation maintain "open door policy" to any migrant wishing to enter our country we will never get the service we have paid for!!!!!

garinda · 18-01-2011, 01:42

In the last fifteen years the NHS has never had so much funding thrown at it.

Much of it siphoned off into administration.

If the level of patient care rose over this time period, is a question open to debate.

Personally I think it didn't.

However, what is happening now, is that the pen-pushers are avoiding the effects of the cuts, whilst the frontline medical staff bear the brunt, resulting in poorer patient care, and cancelled operations.

That is wrong.

Reform was needed, but sadly this is totally the wrong sort of change which was needed.

Mancie · 18-01-2011, 01:57

Yes Bernadette I think the "shake up" of the NHS is the most frightning...
BBC News - NHS upheaval could have been avoided, leading GPs say.
In my own experience and from friends, the idea having a GP decide if he/she should spend some of thier budget on any hospital treatment you as a patient may need is a recipe for disaster.. all to many times people have been wrongly diagnosed by GP's.. and to put the added pressure on these doctors, who are afterall not specialised, forcing them to make financial decisions as well as medical will lead to many more people not getting the treatment needed.. I'll be blunt.. people will die because GP's get things wrong!

Eric · 18-01-2011, 05:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

In the last fifteen years the NHS has never had so much funding thrown at it.

Much of it siphoned off into administration.

If the level of patient care rose over this time period, is a question open to debate.

Personally I think it didn't.

However, what is happening now, is that the pen-pushers are avoiding the effects of the cuts, whilst the frontline medical staff bear the brunt, resulting in poorer patient care, and cancelled operations.

That is wrong.

Reform was needed, but sadly this is totally the wrong sort of change which was needed.

I usually dismiss "you can't solve a problem by throwing money at it" as empty rhetoric, a true tory cliche dragged out into debate in order to justify not spending on social programmes. However, if what you say is true, and I've no reason to doubt that it is, the cash pumped into the NHS was not used to its best effect. We have had reforms in Ontario. Hospitals were given budget targets and encouraged to meet those targets without hurting service, and, at the same time cutting wait times. Faced with this, hospital administrators quickly started doing the job they had been overpaid for. Efficiency increased without layoffs. And the delivery of first rate health care became better. However, there was never any consideration of making the patient pay for the faults of hospital administrations.

In this whole mess I detect in the tory attitude a strong stench of the worst kind of Calvinism.

Mancie · 18-01-2011, 07:10

All this talk about cash pumped into the NHS being wasted is the stuff of dreams to the tories.. they feed on the bad news they manage to create via the media ... Cameron has stated the front line nurses are de-morolised.. where did he get that info from?.. if the front line services are de-morolised it is because of the pressure that is being put on the NHS by this government.

Margaret Pilkington · 18-01-2011, 07:36

I left the NHS some 8 years ago.......front line staff were pared to the bone then.....and from the reports of my 'still working' friends, it has become much worse......nurses crying on their way in to work because they cannot hope to deliver the standard of care that they would wish for their own family.

This was not just the result of the last government, but of successive governments tinkering with something that they knew very little about.....bringing in market forces, as if patients lives were of less consequence than a tin of beans in Tesco.

I am dismayed at the thoughts of GPs commissioning services....that isn't what they are trained to do....it isn't their remit.
And as for the red herring of giving patients more choice about where to have treatment........that is pure baloney. Most patients want to be treated in their own locality, at a safe hospital, where their friends and family can visit.

Medicine is a money hungry beast, with many treatments(especially those for cancer) costing thousands of pounds.

The government is campaigning for people to identify cancer symptoms earlier to get the targets for treatment, up to those of other EU countries(whom, we lag depressingly behind)....and yet if you come forward and are diagnosed, then it is a good chance that NICE will refuse you the drug that could prolong your life.

Mixed messages or what?

My advice would be to get rid of the pen pushers, the tiers of administration...employ more nurses and midwives, ditch the PFI...if yopu can't afford to build hospitals then you must renovate the ones you have or ask for public subscription(many hospitals were built purely on public donations.....stop doing the unecessary stuff......IVF, cosmetic surgery....if people want these things then let them save up and pay for it in an NHS hospital......I could go on and on.

jaysay · 18-01-2011, 09:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmonstanley

major corporations don't employ in this country any more,they are all in the middle east. they will soon find out it has been against their best interests as people will not be able to afford to buy their products and they will have less profit

if they did employ large amounts of people as in the past there would be less crime , less people on the benefits, and some kind of structure to a lot more people who were employed.

And who's to blame, people in other countries go out to work, I remember the 60s when a tradesman putting a screw in the wrong hole ment a strike, is it any wonder the major firms built their factories elsewhere, every day there were reports of strikes on the news, and usually frivolous strikes at that

jaysay · 18-01-2011, 09:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Varrechia

I feel It will be 13 years of labours fault. Repeat ad nausium....

well who else is to blame, usual Labour gumpf every body else is to blame bare us, why is it that this country is in turmoil every time Labour are kicked out of office, it sure as hell ain't because they've done a wonderful job of running the country is it

jaysay · 18-01-2011, 10:01

The problem with the NHS is that for every front line clinician there are 998 support staff 1 to 1 basis, anybody like to say that this is right