I want your desk cleared by 5.... - Page 10

garinda · 07-07-2011, 12:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by g jones

Inevitably if you had 35 independents they would have to form two or three teams to manage affairs and each other and you would end up back at a political structure we have now.

Independents is a utopian ideal that if it did exist would end up in grotesque unworkable chaos. Which indepndent would lead on which service and what if they had extreme views? What happend when another lead councillor has the opposite view and the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing? And if they do what they are doing but demand no compromise 'because they are independent and sticking to the will of their constituents'?

It would be a charter for political gridlock. Local Govermment needs people working together and people who share a simialr sense of direction in order for the wheels to turn.

Yet Eric informs us it works perfectly well in Canada.

Margaret Pilkington · 07-07-2011, 13:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by g jones

Local Govermment needs people working together and people who share a simialr sense of direction in order for the wheels to turn.

Something I heartily agree with.
Is the good of the borough not a similar sense of direction?
It is isn't, then it should be...and that should be all that is required.

Jim Procter · 07-07-2011, 13:55

The one talking the most sense on this topic is MP from Clayton-le-Moors.In my independent opinion that is.

jaysay · 07-07-2011, 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by g jones

Inevitably if you had 35 independents they would have to form two or three teams to manage affairs and each other and you would end up back at a political structure we have now.

Independents is a utopian ideal that if it did exist would end up in grotesque unworkable chaos. Which indepndent would lead on which service and what if they had extreme views? What happend when another lead councillor has the opposite view and the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing? And if they do what they are doing but demand no compromise 'because they are independent and sticking to the will of their constituents'?

It would be a charter for political gridlock. Local Govermment needs people working together and people who share a simialr sense of direction in order for the wheels to turn.

Well at least that's something we can agree on Graham, totally independent council would be fine something I've always said but its just not practical and unsustainable, and unworkable

Eric · 07-07-2011, 18:19

City of Kingston, Ontario, Canada - City Councillors

Here's our bunch of councillors. Notice that there are only twelve of them, plus the Mayor, who is elected at large. And all in all they do not a bad job; and they are an accessible group. And I don't believe that they see themselves as "Independents", or anything other than City Councillors. I haven't read all the profiles, but I'm pretty sure there is no mention of party affilliation.

JCB · 07-07-2011, 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by g jones

Independents is a utopian ideal that if it did exist would end up in grotesque unworkable chaos.

It would be a charter for political gridlock. Local Govermment needs people working together and people who share a simialr sense of direction in order for the wheels to turn.

I know the Orkney Islands are a long way off , but they have one of the councils in the UK which is controlled by non-party politicians .

I am not aware that their council is in grotesque unworkable chaos or political gridlock .

Maybe they are just mature enough to be united in serving the interests of the people , and can discuss and debate issues , reaching decisions that are advantageous to the islanders .

Benipete · 07-07-2011, 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric

City of Kingston, Ontario, Canada - City Councillors

Here's our bunch of councillors. Notice that there are only twelve of them, plus the Mayor, who is elected at large. And all in all they do not a bad job; and they are an accessible group. And I don't believe that they see themselves as "Independents", or anything other than City Councillors. I haven't read all the profiles, but I'm pretty sure there is no mention of party affilliation.

Sounds good to me.Twelve Sensible people and a Mayor.Instead of 35 imbeciles fighting their own political corner.

It will never happen here,The trough is to deep.

g jones · 07-07-2011, 19:40

Mayors are different. All the power is put in one person. He chooses whoever he likes. It is a model that many here are considering and I would say this, it encourages voters to think locally when voting.

Of course elect a bad one and it's the reverse. It also damages the ward based councillor whose say is next to nothing and results in a democratic deficit.

The current system means your councillor has more power to change things as part of a team. Under the Mayors system descent can result in the sack.

Margaret Pilkington · 07-07-2011, 19:47

Then maybe we should make the trough a saucer instead.

When people say it will never happen here, they close their minds to the possibilities, and stop looking for solutions to problems.......and the problems(certainly with the last administration - can't comment on this new one because it is too new) were that some of the councillors...notably the leader saw themselves as bigger than the needs of the borough.
It was all top show.......or as my mother used to say...silk frock and no knickers.

It just seems to me that we learn nothing from experience...we, the electorate of the borough will put up with the same old, same old...because it is the easiest option.....don't whatever you do rock the boat or muddy the water...it will upset the political parties......they have to look like they are worth something.

But hey, what the hell do I know??????

Eric · 07-07-2011, 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by g jones

Mayors are different. All the power is put in one person. He chooses whoever he likes. It is a model that many here are considering and I would say this, it encourages voters to think locally when voting.

Of course elect a bad one and it's the reverse. It also damages the ward based councillor whose say is next to nothing and results in a democratic deficit.

The current system means your councillor has more power to change things as part of a team. Under the Mayors system descent can result in the sack.

All depends on what mayoral system one uses. You seem to be looking at a system in which the mayor is, well, dictator. This need not be the case. Our mayor is the chairman of the council. As such, he doesn't vote unless there is a tie vote. He can, and does participate in council discussion. Our ward-based councillors cannot be sacked. They represent a ward, and if they have a master, it is not the mayor, it is their constituents. I realise that our city councillors have political beliefs. They, no doubt, vote on issues according to their affiliation. Our Mayor, Mark Gerretsen, is the son of John Gerretsen, who represents Kingston and the Islands in the Ontario legislature for the Liberal Party. So, he is possibly Liberal.

The councillor in my ward is Jim Neill. Jim is a member of the New Democratic Party (Labour). He has run for office under that banner. However, there is no official, regimented party affilliation. Jim works for the residents of Williamsville, not for the NDP.

Tealeaf · 07-07-2011, 20:53

Eric,

What you doing fooling around on here this afternoon? Surely you should have your eyes glued to the TV screen, cheering on the live pictures of Their Royal Highnesses, The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge, as they make their stately progress through their soon-to-be north american dominion?

Eric · 07-07-2011, 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tealeaf

Eric,

What you doing fooling around on here this afternoon? Surely you should have your eyes glued to the TV screen, cheering on the live pictures of Their Royal Highnesses, The Duke and Duchess of Cambridge, as they make their stately progress through their soon-to-be north american dominion?

Hey, party'd with them in Ottawa on July 1, Canada Day

. Now they are in Calgary, a few time zones west of here. Their stopover in Slave Lake guarantees the future of the monarchy in Canada. Folks in Quebec City were even waving Union Jacks

That British Royals should get such a welcome in the heartland of Seperatisme is unbelievable. There is absolutely no doubt that they made a hit in Canada. And, the Duke of Cambridge is a decent helicopter pilot, and he seems to enjoy "water birding."

cashman · 07-07-2011, 22:13

Well thats just convinced me Eric. yeh will sup wi anybody.

Eric · 07-07-2011, 22:16

Prince William performs water landings in Canada | The Jakarta Post

Oh, this is water birding. Interesting .... never read the Jakarta Post before. I wonder if they deliver in Kingston??????

Eric · 07-07-2011, 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman

Well thats just convinced me Eric. yeh will sup wi anybody.

This is true, bud. As long as they can pay their round