If there was a general election tomorrow, who gets your vote? - Page 2

Ianto.W. · 31-03-2007, 23:29

Quote:

G Jones, Thatcher wrecked places like Hyndburn and my friends and myself included, still look back with hatred at that woman and her ilk.

Mr Jones, do not take this as a personal attack, as the last thing I need is enemies. What you know at your tender age knows about the Thatcher era could be crafted on the rear of a 1st class stamp. I have 3 children older than you and brought another family up as well after that bitch was deposed, interest rates inflation were at a level no right thinking person today would beleive. I will breifly seek to enlighten you, interest rates for borrowers were 12% businesses were paying 5% over base rate plus bank charges, this totaled approx 20% whilst working on a profit margin of 30%. Why? to destroy the bargaining power of the working classes IE miners etc, also a pointless campaign in the Falkland Islands, and also to keep Ireland devided. Do not play at politics Quote."My friends and myself included" if they are of your era how do you know?

andrewb · 01-04-2007, 00:57

Not to get in to too much of a political history debate (as often happens way too much) but I can understand why people might dislike Thatcher, for whatever reasons you choose. I mean lets face it some of the methods she went about things did indeed hurt a lot of people.

However I personally do think its irresponsible to vow not to vote Tory now or ever again simply because of something you disagree with that happened in the 80's, when there is a completely different leader with completely different approach to things.

Yeah you might say im just trying to defend the Tories because its in my interests, because Im a member and i'd vote for them if there was an election tomorrow. But if I was a Labour member and people kept saying "I'll never vote Labour they bow down to the trade unions and we had high inflation and powercuts" back in the 70's.. then i'd certainly make it known that the Labour party today is a completely different animal due to the leadership.

I know a lot of things she did wernt good for many people in the North and well around the country, but seriously can you hold a grudge against the Conservatives because of something that happened in the past like 5 leaders ago?

Mancie · 01-04-2007, 01:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyfr

However I personally do think its irresponsible to vow not to vote Tory now or ever again simply because of something you disagree with that happened in the 80's, when there is a completely different leader with completely different approach to things.

I do care about the havoc caused by the Tories in the 80's...

I was still living in Accrington at that time and it was a complete mess in empoyment and town economics.. the then Tory MP Ken Heargreaves even tried to detached himself from the manic idealist right wing Thatcherism that swept the south ... local business and companies closed down because of the obsession the Tory governent had with the "free market" but this obsession included state run and subsidized imports from any "free market" ... korea,china, and tiawan to name a few....

Many firms in Accrington could not compete..and jobs were lost, but of course you could always "get on your bike"!

I am not just taliking about the 80's.... the Tories have historicaly bad for the north west for the last 200 years.

g jones · 01-04-2007, 09:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ianto.W.

Mr Jones, do not take this as a personal attack, as the last thing I need is enemies. What you know at your tender age knows about the Thatcher era could be crafted on the rear of a 1st class stamp. I have 3 children older than you and brought another family up as well after that bitch was deposed, interest rates inflation were at a level no right thinking person today would beleive. I will breifly seek to enlighten you, interest rates for borrowers were 12% businesses were paying 5% over base rate plus bank charges, this totaled approx 20% whilst working on a profit margin of 30%. Why? to destroy the bargaining power of the working classes IE miners etc, also a pointless campaign in the Falkland Islands, and also to keep Ireland devided. Do not play at politics Quote."My friends and myself included" if they are of your era how do you know?

I personally suffered badly between 1982 - 1989. I don't wish to go any further, thats's my priovate affairs and your OUT OF ORDER making grandstand comments. You do snipe and look down Ian, though that's life. I wouldn't do it to you so you don't have to worry about making enemies. And your right, you could loathe Thatcher on the back of a postage stamp.

Elsewhere; The Tories have changed is nonsense. Many tory voters yearn for Thatcherism or a hard line approach. Their issues will not go away if Cameron gets elected because they will have put him there. Many don't like Cameron but want Labour out. Eg if he doesn't make Tax Cuts in the first 4 years he knows he may well lose and where's the tax cuts coming from. Look around Hyndburn at all the regeneration. Thats where from. And with not many Tory MPs up north, who will a Tory government be influenced by, East Sussex or East Manchester?

Off Topic. (I am against the War in Iraq). Someone wrote that 255 British serviceman lost their lives in the Falklands and 134 have lost their lives in Iraq. I know Blair has come in for stick but we were right to go into Kosova (and did good), Sierra Leone (and did good) and had to go into Afghanistan regardless because of the terrorist training camps. Whilst not a Blairite I think he has been a strong, if controversial leader.

andrewb · 01-04-2007, 09:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by g jones

Elsewhere; The Tories have changed is nonsense. Many tory voters yearn for Thatcherism or a hard line approach. Their issues will not go away if Cameron gets elected because they will have put him there. Many don't like Cameron but want Labour out. Eg if he doesn't make Tax Cuts in the first 4 years he knows he may well lose and where's the tax cuts coming from. Look around Hyndburn at all the regeneration. Thats where from. And with not many Tory MPs up north, who will a Tory government be influenced by, East Sussex or East Manchester?

Off Topic. (I am against the War in Iraq). Someone wrote that 255 British serviceman lost their lives in the Falklands and 134 have lost their lives in Iraq. I know Blair has come in for stick but we were right to go into Kosova (and did good), Sierra Leone (and did good) and had to go into Afghanistan regardless because of the terrorist training camps. Whilst not a Blairite I think he has been a strong, if controversial leader.

You see im not sure if thats true or not. I don't get involved much locally but the "Conservatives" that I have spoken to like Thatcher but I think its more of a "Saving us from Socialism" like, rather than a passion for everything she did.

I genuinely feel Cameron cares, and he won't just stand there and let the north become deprived of funding and such. I just really can't see it happening. If he gets in to power and things end up like the 80's then you can all come back here and give me a right shouting at for misjudging him.

About the Conservatives in general, yeah it attracts some extremists, but so does Labour and every other party, they're not representative of the leadership. My views were a lot more right than they are now, so people can change, as can parties.

gondola · 01-04-2007, 09:26

''Whilst not a Blairite I think he has been a strong, if controversial leader.''

Utter tosh. Frankly, his policies are now beginning to show the detrimental impact on the people of this country. Crime rampant, patients dying in hospitals from infections after being admitted for routine treatments, stealth taxes, mismanagement of border controls, and the rest.

I often note that the Labour Governement take credit for low interest rates. They conveniently forget that they had passed such responsibility to the Bank of England. Moreover, good economic growth over recent years has been a global phenomena, not just specifically confined to the UK.

The cracks are beginning to show in America, in case you had not noticed. The housing market is suffering a significant correction, there is substantial default in the sub prime lending market, even the Chairman of the Fed Alan Greenspan has suggested that the US may slip into recession in the later part of the year, though the current chairman Bernanke has sought to alleviate such concerns with suggestions of moderate growth.

This may affect the UK economy at some stage. If course, the details are very different form the US. However, if people like Roger Bootle of Capital Economics are even fractionally right in thier assertions that the UK housing market may correct some 30%, then suddenly people will not feel that well off. That may lead to the consumer cutting back on spending, and with the rise of personal bankruptcies lenders may seek to restrict credit going forward. Suddenly you have a situation in which things are not so rosy and thats when people start to blame the government and look at other issues like the failing NHS, crime etc.

Blair will have gone by then, but the impact of his disastrous policies may only just be taking place.

gondola · 01-04-2007, 09:28

Incidentally, so far as regards funding for regenrationand the community, have you ever thought just what proportion of it comes from the EU?

gondola · 01-04-2007, 09:30

Another case of mismanagement by the Blair Govt. has to be the Olympics. To be so wide of the mark on anticipated costs is simply incredible. You simply could not make it up. If the minister in charge, and ghastly she is, was a project manager for a listed company overseeing a similar project she would have seen the exit door a long time ago.

But in Blairs Government, there is no such thing as accountability and resigning when the facts of failure stare you point blank in the face.

Mancie · 01-04-2007, 09:46

No Gondola..... you could not make it up could you?.. you could not make up 3.5 million workers on the dole... you could not make interest mortgage rates climb from 8% to 15% in 3 days... you could not make up muderous street riots.. you could not make up massive redundances in the coal, cars,steel, and textile industries and diverting them from exports to imports
You just could not make it up.. eh?

gondola · 01-04-2007, 09:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie

No Gondola..... you could not make it up could you?.. you could not make up 3.5 million workers on the dole... you could not make interest mortgage rates climb from 8% to 15% in 3 days... you could not make up muderous street riots.. you could not make up massive redundances in the coal, cars,steel, and textile industries and diverting them from exports to imports
You just could not make it up.. eh?

I am not defending the Conservative governement. Far from it. Thatcher killed off manufacturing in this country and it has never since revived.
However, i think for Mr Jones to come on here and attempt to paint a glowing picture of the Blair government is simply not accurate.
It's the old lies, damned lies and statistics. As anyone who has watched PMQ's (and I have been in the Strangers Gallery in person on a couple of occasions in the past), will know that every fact can be twisted to suit to whichever way it suits. Thus the govermnment will state crime is down, whilst the oppostion will insist it is rising. Both will present statistics to support their point of view.

I look at it anecdotally. Do people I speak to feel safer on the street now? No. Do people feel the NHS is in better shape? Yes. Are people concerned about the level of illegal migration and it's consequences on the economy, health service and crime in general? Yes Are people worried about their pensions? Yes. Are people concerend about the level of education and lack of respect in schools? Yes. Do people feel that gun crime is on the rise? Yes. Do people feel that terrorist activity is more of a threat due directly to the foreign policy of this governement? Yes. Do hard working people feel that they are being increasingly unfairly targeted by unfair stealth taxes? Yes

I could go on but I think i have sufficiently laboured (no pun intended) the point.

gondola · 01-04-2007, 10:04

By the way, in my last post, I wrote: Do people feel the NHS is in better shape? Yes. Clearly the answer was supposed to be No.

Wynonie Harris · 01-04-2007, 10:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by gondola

I am not defending the Conservative governement. Far from it. Thatcher killed off manufacturing in this country and it has never since revived.
However, i think for Mr Jones to come on here and attempt to paint a glowing picture of the Blair government is simply not accurate.
It's the old lies, damned lies and statistics. As anyone who has watched PMQ's (and I have been in the Strangers Gallery in person on a couple of occasions in the past), will know that every fact can be twisted to suit to whichever way it suits. Thus the govermnment will state crime is down, whilst the oppostion will insist it is rising. Both will present statistics to support their point of view.

I look at it anecdotally. Do people I speak to feel safer on the street now? No. Do people feel the NHS is in better shape? Yes. Are people concerned about the level of illegal migration and it's consequences on the economy, health service and crime in general? Yes Are people worried about their pensions? Yes. Are people concerend about the level of education and lack of respect in schools? Yes. Do people feel that gun crime is on the rise? Yes. Do people feel that terrorist activity is more of a threat due directly to the foreign policy of this governement? Yes. Do hard working people feel that they are being increasingly unfairly targeted by unfair stealth taxes? Yes

I could go on but I think i have sufficiently laboured (no pun intended) the point.

It must be said that the much-maligned Gondola has expressed mine (and I feel many other people's) views perfectly here. In other words, as Margaret P. somewhat succinctly put it, "they are ALL a shower of doo doo"!

andrewb · 01-04-2007, 10:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

It must be said that the much-maligned Gondola has expressed mine (and I feel many other people's) views perfectly here. In other words, as Margaret P. somewhat succinctly put it, "they are ALL a shower of doo doo"!

Some poo is less smelly and in lesser quantities though!

Ianto.W. · 01-04-2007, 12:11

Quote:

g jones, I personally suffered badly between 1982 - 1989. I don't wish to go any further, thats's my priovate affairs and your OUT OF ORDER making grandstand comments.

You sufferred badly did you Mr Jones, at that time I employed at any one time between 40-50 people, who all suffered badly I will leave it to your imagination as to how, it was certainly not due to my incompetence. So please allow me this moment on the GRANDSTAND, as it is the nearest iv'e been to it since, again nothing personal. I would dearly have loved to forcefeed that woman a Vindaloo Curry and stiched her anus up.

Margaret Pilkington · 01-04-2007, 12:25

Cyfr...I am tempted to say 'a rose, by any other name would smell as sweet'........I suppose this also applies to doo-doo.....it is quite stinky even in small quantities and you don't want to live in it....do you?

I trust none of the political parties.