If you had £33 billion spare?

[Gordon Booth]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Sorry Cashy, misread that.
Where is this chunk of money coming from?

Osborne is borrowing more money each month just to pay our way!
So we'll have to borrow the £33 billion as well.
It will only create 9000 jobs to build it, no one is saying the contracts will go to British companies employing British workers. The multi billion order for rolling stock went to Siemens in Germany so no guarantees. Still, it'll keep 9000 Romanians occupied!
The other 31,000 jobs it will create will be in running it and servicing it so no export wealth will be created, just more service jobs.

[Margaret Pilkington]

so not that money making scam PFI then!

[accyman]

to keep our train system viable government according to radio 2 and a load of tree huggers on the show are looking at taxing the hell out of the motorist even more to subsiside train travelers

they wont tell the rail compnay to manage its money better its much easier to screw someone else

[Gordon Booth]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

so not that money making scam PFI then!

Could be, Margaret. Both are ways of spending money you haven't got.
Borrow it and it shows as Government debt,which looks bad, you pay interest and when the loan is up you borrow it again because you haven't any cash to pay it off.

Under PFI it doesn't show as Government debt so it looks good. But the money men build it and own it and you 'rent' it off them for 25 to 30 years, usually. You pay that much in rent that by the end of the contract it's cost you about 5 times what it cost to build and you now own a 30 year old obsolete hospital. In the meantime the hospital trust has had to pay so much in 'rent' they've overspent their budgets every year, gone in debt, had to close wards, get rid of staff etc.

Take your pick.

[Eric]

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth

Osborne is borrowing more money each month just to pay our way!
So we'll have to borrow the £33 billion as well.
It will only create 9000 jobs to build it, no one is saying the contracts will go to British companies employing British workers. The multi billion order for rolling stock went to Siemens in Germany so no guarantees. Still, it'll keep 9000 Romanians occupied!
The other 31,000 jobs it will create will be in running it and servicing it so no export wealth will be created, just more service jobs.

Service jobs would be better than nothing ... but not much. If, as I think you are suggesting, the project could make work for British firms, employing British workers, it might not be all that bad of a deal. Do you think it possible that money injected into Briitish companies might create a longer lasting benefit, with these companies manufacturing and exporting real "stuff" like locomotives and rolling stock, and related technologies? With jobs created and spin-off benefits, the borrowing of the 33 billion could be seen as an investment.

But for some reason, I don't think this is what your tories have in mind.

[Gordon Booth]

Originally Posted by Eric

Service jobs would be better than nothing ... but not much. If, as I think you are suggesting, the project could make work for British firms, employing British workers, it might not be all that bad of a deal. Do you think it possible that money injected into Briitish companies might create a longer lasting benefit, with these companies manufacturing and exporting real "stuff" like locomotives and rolling stock, and related technologies? With jobs created and spin-off benefits, the borrowing of the 33 billion could be seen as an investment.

But for some reason, I don't think this is what your tories have in mind.

The Siemens contract had a very competitive quote from Bombadier. All right it's a Canadian company but it would have expanded its factory here, taken on more British workers and been ready to push for exports from a safe base with years of work already under its belt.( And it would have helped you colonials survive-keep it in the family. )There was some delayed payment fiddle which pushed it to Siemens. The Germans wouldn't have allowed it to happen the other way round.
I read somewhere all the locomotives and rolling stock for HS will be bought from a French company, built in France based on existing French designs. So we've lost that one before we start.

[accyman]

i for the life of me find it farcical that this country cant run an efficient and affordable train service yet most of europe can.Someone is clearly crap at their job and whoever is giving that person or persons their job is also failing miserably.I dont see why government should constantly fund a private buisness that does nothing but produce one failure after another.The government shoudl pull all funding and let them fail miserably on their own then swoop in and buy the train service outright at a bargain bucket deal price and employ somone competant to run it.

its only a guess but i reakon teh majority of tax payers money given to the train company to improve things either ends up in shareholders pockets or paying contractors on the basis of who their friends are and not what they can deliver at value for money

they get hand out after handout and still have the audacity to not only put up prices above inflation but provide a urine poor service to boot.

oops a leaf has appeared on my keyboard so will have to stop typing

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by lancsdave

It pays in Accrington, maybe we could club together and pay for some one way tickets for our experienced town centre beggars

We could even provide um with their own neatly printed T Shirts Dave and a nice new box

[accyman]

Originally Posted by jaysay

We could even provide um with their own neatly printed T Shirts Dave and a nice new box

you mean a luchbox for their sandwiches and errr...

[Eric]

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth

The Siemens contract had a very competitive quote from Bombadier. All right it's a Canadian company but it would have expanded its factory here, taken on more British workers and been ready to push for exports from a safe base with years of work already under its belt.( And it would have helped you colonials survive-keep it in the family. )There was some delayed payment fiddle which pushed it to Siemens. The Germans wouldn't have allowed it to happen the other way round.
I read somewhere all the locomotives and rolling stock for HS will be bought from a French company, built in France based on existing French designs. So we've lost that one before we start.

I was wondering about Bombardier ... they have a facility and test track in Kingston, and I know they are a major international player in transportation. And if they already have a factory in Britain, employing British workers, it probably would have been a better deal. Maybe this is a case in which the cheapest deal is not necessarily the best one in the long run.

Oh, and by the way, out here in the colonies, we are doing just fine.

[Restless]

I would buy the old con club then tear it down

[Gordon Booth]

Originally Posted by Eric

Oh, and by the way, out here in the colonies, we are doing just fine.

You're certainly doing a lot better than we are.
You haven't got a spare billion I can borrow, have you? I think Less is chickening out.

[Gordon Booth]

The West Coast mainline upgrade was supposed to cost £2 billion. Someone decided it was expensive so they cut the specifications to cut the cost. We got a poorer upgrade than planned and guess what- it only cost £9 billion.

So multiply that £33 billion by 2,3,4 ? Take your pick.

Let me know on that billion, Eric. I think we might need it soon.

[cashman]

Whats really amusing about this, is if Labour had introduced it,when in power, certain people would now be bitching about Labours overspending. Just fer a change.

[Eric]

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth

You're certainly doing a lot better than we are.
You haven't got a spare billion I can borrow, have you? I think Less is chickening out.

We already did our bit and supplied you with a new governor for the Bank of England By the way, the next time the Yanks and the Europeans (I've never thought of Britain as being part of Europe; but that's a whole 'nother new thread) come around asking if you want to be part of a great economic meltdown, your government should say: "No thanks, guys; we'll pass on that." We did ... and look where it got us. We also said "No thanks" to the last debacle in Iraq too. And the Yanks still love us Well, maybe not us so much as our oil, uranium, etc, etc, etc.