If you were creating a government...

[yerself]

The monarchy should be usurped without delay. Boris Johnson named as President, Tealeaf as Prime Minister and Bagpuss as Foreign Secretary.

[andrewb]

Originally Posted by jambutty

Nearly all new ideas will be flawed until they are discussed Cyfr. That’s the idea of floating new ideas to see what can become of them. Dismissing a new idea out of hand just because someone thinks it won’t work is crass in the extreme.
If an MP has to vote on a subject that is not in his/her manifesto the MP will either vote as his/her conscience dictates or seek guidance from his/her constituents although that may not be practical at times. What the MP won’t have to do is to vote as the party dictates. If your MP continually votes on matters not in his/her manifesto that do not suit you, you know what to do at the next election. Vote for someone else.

No doubt there would be some horse trading between MP’s and temporary coalitions will be formed – “if you vote with me on this issue, I will vote with you on that issue” but each MP will have a CHOICE. They don’t get much of a choice these days – except the independents but they are few. In fact they might as well get rid of MP’s and replace them with rubber stamps.
Yes let’s face it – if it wasn’t for the whips there would be much less bad legislation and the current PM wouldn’t be acting like a dictator. The whole Parliamentary system is supposed to be a servant of the people not their boss and that would make for a STRONGER Parliament not a weaker one.

Currently every single MP has a choice. The whips help influence a vote, but an MP is not forced to follow what they say.

I think we will have to disagree on the matter of stronger parliament as I don't believe a system of gridlock where a lot of legislation isn't passed helps stabilise a government or keep it together.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by jambutty

Although inflation is quoted in percentages the reality is an actual cash increase and it is the same for everybody. If I go into a shop to buy something the shopkeeper doesn’t charge me less because I happen to be a pensioner and more to some person earning £500 or more per week. The price of the item is the same for all customers regardless of their income.

I don't agree with the inflation not being a percentage. If gas and electricity go up by 5% that might mean £20 a year to you in your flat(I think you live in a flat) but to me it could mean £100+ in my family home. If food goes up 5% then it will make a bigger difference to me with 5 mouths to feed (have you seen my mouth before someone tries to be funny). Same for car insurance fuel etc, I have a family so need a bigger car. Etc etc etc

[andrewb]

Originally Posted by jambutty

Although inflation is quoted in percentages the reality is an actual cash increase and it is the same for everybody. If I go into a shop to buy something the shopkeeper doesn’t charge me less because I happen to be a pensioner and more to some person earning £500 or more per week. The price of the item is the same for all customers regardless of their income.

Completely disagree. If you use your logic you could say the poll tax is a good idea, its using your logic just the advantage is to the higher earners not the lower.. and we all know what a bad idea the poll tax was. Of course initialy it wouldnt be the same as the poll tax because I assume there will be different bands, but when you start adding fixed costs rather than percentages on to that when its increased, you shall get the lower income earners paying more and more with the higher paying not much compared to their salary..

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Cyfr

If you use your logic you could say the poll tax is a good idea..... and we all know what a bad idea the poll tax was.

Why was it a bad idea? Did it not mean that everyone paid the same for the same services in a given area?

[Ianto.W.]

The poll tax was the right way, collecting it was always going to be a problem, as some people are mobile and move from town to town, whereas property is static making tax collection easier.

[shillelagh]

In this day and age Shillelagh, with the advent of the Internet a larger constituency should not be a problem. If every MP had his/her own web site where constituents could register as a member, they could then make their views known to the MP as and when they choose. It would be fairly easy for the MP to seek the views of the constituents by way of a web site poll. It might just encourage people to get more involved in how the country is run. Many, many people complain about Government spending but few make their voices heard where it might do some good. They just moan to each other. Our country is the way it is because of electorate apathy.


All the MP's do have websites where you can send them an email. The only thing is not everyone has a computer. Also can you imagine trying to contact your MP and he's based in Accrington but you live in Whitworth or your MP is based in Rawtenstall or Haslingden and live in Great Harwood and you dont have a car you have to depend on public transport to get there and there is also the cost of that. Ok so you have a surgery in every town but then what happens is something goes wrong on Tuesday that you have to get in touch with him urgently and so you contact his office on the Wednesday. Because he's having a surgery in Whitworth on
Saturday morning, Saturday afternoon hes in Crawshawbooth, you wont be able to actually speak to him until the following Tuesday and then only by phone as he will be travelling back to London. By that time the problem could have escalated. You live in Great Harwood and think if i go to one of his surgeries i'll be able to speak to him. So you jump on the bus and go to Accrington, then catch another bus to Rawtenstall, and then wait for the bus to Crawshawbooth. How much will that cost plus you've got to come back.

http://www.gregpope.co.uk/ and http://www.epolitix.com/EN/MPWebsite...erson/home.htm

[andrewb]

Originally Posted by Neil

Why was it a bad idea? Did it not mean that everyone paid the same for the same services in a given area?

Well yes in theory its 'right' in terms of everyone paying the same for what they get. But actualy thinking about things.. even if people earn lower incomes they shouldnt be forced to suffer because they cant afford the tax which high earners can. High earners can afford to pay a little more.. so they do..

[jambutty]

I accept that no MP is forced to vote on party lines Cyfr but the Whips do more than influence a vote. If an MP decides to go against the Whips ‘advice’ (which in reality is more of an instruction) that MP will be sanctioned in some way right up to being dismissed from the party. MP’s are whipped into party line if they show a tendency to think for themselves. That’s why the Whips are called Whips!

The National Basket has a certain cash value Neil (I don’t know what it is) and month-by-month the prices of the goods in that basket are checked and any increase is declared as an AVERAGE percentage value of the previous cash value. It’s called inflation. Thus during the course of a year the inflation could be say 10%. Wage increase claims are based on this figure and those with a lower income will not get the real cash value increase, whilst those on a higher income will, not only get the cash value but more. Because of this percentage thing pensions become less and less year-by-year in real terms and so do the wages of the low paid.

We shall have to agree to disagree Neil. But you will never convince me that basing wage increases on a percentage basis is anything other than UNFAIR.

In spite of your claims that the Poll Tax was a bad idea Cyfr, on the contrary many people saw it as being fair. Why should a pensioner, single person or even a couple pay the same Council Tax as a household with 3 or 4 working adults? The Poll Tax was a fair way of charging adults for the services that the local authority provided. Where it went wrong is the level of PT per person. It was too high. The Councils grabbed the opportunity to get more money out of the town’s residents. Lower income earners did not pay more as there was the safety net, in the same way that low income families get a full or partial Council Tax relief.

My MP, Janet Anderson, has a web site shillelagh but unless you declare which sector of industry you are in you cannot register to post on the Blog. The choices are; Charity, Corporate, Government Agency/NDPB, Government Department, Local Government, Media, MP/Peer/MEP/MSP/AM/MLA, Parliamentary Staff, Google Page Ranking/Public Affairs Consultancy, Public Services, Student/Research Institute, Think Tank/Pressure Group, Trade Assoc/Professional Body or Union. I don’t see factory, office, shop workers in that list. Nor postmen, binmen, pensioners etc.

Thus the man/woman in the street cannot register unless they lie about which sector they are in.

There are contact details, which include several email addresses but as you say not everyone is computer literate or indeed has one of these infernal machines. But there is always the public library and help is at hand for those who cannot use a computer to send an email.

[andrewb]

Originally Posted by jambutty

I accept that no MP is forced to vote on party lines Cyfr but the Whips do more than influence a vote. If an MP decides to go against the Whips ‘advice’ (which in reality is more of an instruction) that MP will be sanctioned in some way right up to being dismissed from the party. MP’s are whipped into party line if they show a tendency to think for themselves. That’s why the Whips are called Whips!

I think you will find there would be an uproar if an MP was dismissed for not following the whip, so although possible, it is really not at all practical as its a weak threat.

[garinda]

Cyfr gets my vote.

Jambutty you're out of office.

[SPUGGIE J]

I suppose that at the end of the day the Govenment we have is what we are stuck with. We can rebel at the voting booth or not as the case may be or start a cout de tat and drag it down. There are that many views on what a govenment should be that we will always jump on the bad stuff and mistakes. No one could ever honestly say that they are a 100% behind what their govenment does (unless under a gun) so there will always be debate which for our form of govenment is good. One thing I am unsure of is proportional represetation.

[cashman]

they have "created a government" in iraq,that is us and the yanks, is it now a better place?

[jambutty]

No it isn’t cashman but that’s not the fault of the incumbent government. The fault lies with the insurgents and the Shia and Sunni religious fanatics who are hell bent on ‘getting their own back on the other lot’ and trying to take over the country for themselves.

Neil - seeing as you are all for inflation figures and wage increases being quoted and acted upon in percentages and dismiss cash values instead let me throw out a challenge.

I will donate 10% of my weekly income to a charity if you will do the same. That is YOU donate 10% of YOUR weekly income to charity.

[andrewb]

Are we going to account for heating allowances and such too?