Is it the first of April? - Page 6

WillowTheWhisp · 23-02-2008, 21:19

There you go again - lumping.

Bonnyboy · 23-02-2008, 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

There you go again - lumping.

I assume the “lumping” comment was for me. I’m not lumping, just think that some muslims play the bloody religion record far too much. It’s tiresome. I should think the vast majority of muslims enjoy the everyday parts of life just as much as you or I. We are supposedly a christian country. It doesn’t mean we all follow the teachings of the bible word for word, why should the muslims follow Islam word for word.

As I said, they cannot be that stuffy over their religion. Perhaps I should have said “some” bang on about it when it suits.

Having said that, I did think they were fairly strict on the relationship front.

WillowTheWhisp · 23-02-2008, 22:55

Well I haven't personally checked out the Muslim 'dating site' which you provided a link for but I do remember seeing a program on TV about a Muslim introduction agency and that one didn't work the same way as a non-Muslim one which just gives details and the people get together and go on a date. The Muslim one featured on TV was done in much the same way as parents looking for a partner for their children, with a chaperone accompanying the pair when they meet and the introduction being in keeping with Islamic tradition.

This could be a case of non-Muslim eyes seeing something Islamic with different expectations to those of a Muslim.

Maybe you would think I 'play the bloody religion record far too much' too because it matters to me that I know what is in the food and drink I have because it matters to me not to drink alcohol. As you will have seen above now that I know that kefir can be alcoholic I will avoid using it. It won't harm anyone else if I don't drink alcohol. Nor will it harm anyone else if Muslims don't. I really don't see why anyone feels this is objectionable.

Bonnyboy · 24-02-2008, 00:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

Well I haven't personally checked out the Muslim 'dating site' which you provided a link for but I do remember seeing a program on TV about a Muslim introduction agency and that one didn't work the same way as a non-Muslim one which just gives details and the people get together and go on a date. The Muslim one featured on TV was done in much the same way as parents looking for a partner for their children, with a chaperone accompanying the pair when they meet and the introduction being in keeping with Islamic tradition.

Go look

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

This could be a case of non-Muslim eyes seeing something Islamic with different expectations to those of a Muslim.

That may well be the case

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

Maybe you would think I 'play the bloody religion record far too much' too because it matters to me that I know what is in the food and drink I have because it matters to me not to drink alcohol. As you will have seen above now that I know that kefir can be alcoholic I will avoid using it. It won't harm anyone else if I don't drink alcohol. Nor will it harm anyone else if Muslims don't. I really don't see why anyone feels this is objectionable.

I don’t see my views on your religious belief’s as being part of this issue Willow. Nowt to do with me.

I do get pigged off with Muslim groups being what I perceive to be petty

I do get pigged off with the papers attempting to create discord over such perceived petty issues. Some reporting is tantamount to incitement.

cashman · 24-02-2008, 00:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonnyboy

Was unaware of their existence, should have know better. There’s an association for everything these days

i wasn't until 7 years ago, n i used em for personal reasons, thought they were very good.

WillowTheWhisp · 24-02-2008, 09:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonnyboy

We are supposedly a christian country. It doesn’t mean we all follow the teachings of the bible word for word, why should the muslims follow Islam word for word.

I somehow missed this bit before but it's a brilliant comparison Bonnyboy and I thank you for it as it's worth bringing up again.

You say that we are a Christian country (although even that is disputed by some who would say that we are a secular country with many (but not all) Christian moral values.) Then you say that we do not all follow the teachings of the Bible word for word. That is absolutely true. Not everyone in this country by a long way follows the teachings of the Bible word for word, but that is because not everyone in this country is a committed Christian - not even everyone who goes to Church on Sundays. To some people church is more of a social club or a tradition or something they do because they always have done, and yet they are classed amongst the numbered Christians of the country who are actually in a minority - the majority don't attend church except for christenings weddings and funerals, and nowadays not even for those. There are numerous people in this country who describe themselves as C of E but never set foot inside a church. Then you get the people who are sincere (whatever denomination) and for whom their faith is the major part of their lives, not just on a Sunday morning but 24/7 365 days a year. People who are not afraid to stand up and be counted and say they believe in Jesus Christ as their Saviour and Redeemer, and who get called 'Bible bashers' by the rest.

That was what I was trying to say about Islam. There are people who describe themselves as Muslim because they were born into Muslim families. There are others who convert to Islam who were perhaps born to Christian parents or to atheist parents or to parents who didn't give a two penny fig one way or t'other. And in between these two there are numerous others - some of whom attend the mosque because that is what you do, and some of whom say they prayers because they want to and because they feel something and it means something to them. There are Muslims who swan off on foreign holidays and think nothing of it. There are others who scrimp and scrape for the one trip of a lifetime to Mecca to the holy city on pilgrimage.

The latter are the ones who care about how their crisps are made. The former will probably carry on eating them even though they know how they are made.

Just because the 'nominal Christians' don't follow the teachings of the Bible does that mean I shouldn't? I choose to do so, and accept that they choose not to. I also appreciate the information which allows me to make my own informed choices so that I am not forced to live by the standards of those who choose not to follow. I don't force my standards on non-believers and I don't expect them to force their standards on me.

I did look at that muslim dating site link - I meant I hadn't checked it out as a member , for two reasons - 1) I am a married woman and 2) I'm not a muslim. However, just by looking at it you can see how it is very much different to a secular dating agency or to small ads in the LET. Unless I actually joined I don't see how I could have an opinion on how the system works and if it is acceptable to Muslim standards, but I can't imagine that it wouldn't be.

Why are my religious views any different to you than a Muslim's? We both have specific standards we wish to live by which are not the same as yours. We neither of us are wishing to force ours onto you, just to ask that we have the information available so that we can continue to live ours. I really can't see why people are getting so hot under the collar about this.

To me it is simply doing people the courtesy of informing them of something which matters to them and which it wouldn't kill Walkers to do. Unless of course they chose to hide the information because they feared they would lose sales to all those Muslim kids who enjoy their crisps. In which case I think they have rather shot themselves in the foot because if I were a Muslim I would now be wary of all their products and not just the ones which they acknowledge may contain traces of alcohol.

wadey · 24-02-2008, 12:47

I have seen alcohol containing crisp particles (my mate had thrown his false teeth into another lad's pint). Not a pretty sight but I don't think it involved religion.

grannyclaret · 24-02-2008, 14:41

Is there anything that Muslims DO approve of....?????????

blazey · 25-02-2008, 02:20

It makes me sad that very few people see this as a concern. If there is alcohol in the product it should be made blatantly obvious.
It wouldn't hurt to put it in the box that contains things that people avoid or could be allergic too, for example vegetarians and vegans are respected and told when there is meat or dairy in the products?

I would think british muslims make up more of the population than a lot of the allergy groups or specific dietary needs like vegans, I may be wrong...

But I wouldn't appreciate it if I was deceived in such a way. Do people give their children Shandy to take to school? I don't class shandy as a suitable childrens drink anyway, and from what i've gathered from previous threads most people on this forum dont either as they dont give their children fizzy drinks at all, never mind drinks with alcohol in it.

I don't really know what to say to this thread, it just makes me disappointed. I don't know many people of my age group that feel this way about muslims or any other race/religion that doesnt drink alcohol or eat certain things. Why do the older generations have these ideas?

panther · 25-02-2008, 12:47

well we have grown up into a caring young lady havent we

my kids drink shandy, i dont see the harm in it, i drank shandy when i was a kid, though i cant stand the stuff now

what would you give your kids to drink blazey???.......

blazey · 25-02-2008, 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by panther

well we have grown up into a caring young lady havent we

my kids drink shandy, i dont see the harm in it, i drank shandy when i was a kid, though i cant stand the stuff now

what would you give your kids to drink blazey???.......

Fruit juice, water, milk? Smoothies....

There are loads of good choices. Not shandy though, its disgusting.

accyman · 26-02-2008, 01:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by grannyclaret

Is there anything that Muslims DO approve of....?????????

SOME approve of drinking beer , you can find them in my local offlicence buying loads of it

but not from their mummy and daddys shops

shhhhhhhhh

WillowTheWhisp · 26-02-2008, 07:50

Those 'Muslims' are as Muslim as the C of E who only ever set foot in a church for a christening wedding or funeral and these days they don't even do it then. Just because someone is born to Muslim parents or is of the same ethnic origin as devout Muslims doesn't make them Muslim. As for what Muslims do approve of, let's see ........ how about honesty, morality, diligence, sincerity, hard work ........ there are plenty of good things which Muslims approve of and which I'm sure many of the rest of us approve of too. It wouldn't be a bad thing if more people approved of those things. Of course you'll always get individuals who don't - just like the layabouts, vandals and petty thieves of a non-Muslim variety.

Neil · 26-02-2008, 08:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

Those 'Muslims' are as Muslim as the C of E who only ever set foot in a church for a christening wedding or funeral and these days they don't even do it then.

Does that mean that C of E people are not Muslim or are not Christian?

accyman · 26-02-2008, 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

Those 'Muslims' are as Muslim as the C of E who only ever set foot in a church for a christening wedding or funeral and these days they don't even do it then. Just because someone is born to Muslim parents or is of the same ethnic origin as devout Muslims doesn't make them Muslim. As for what Muslims do approve of, let's see ........ how about honesty, morality, diligence, sincerity, hard work ........ there are plenty of good things which Muslims approve of and which I'm sure many of the rest of us approve of too. It wouldn't be a bad thing if more people approved of those things. Of course you'll always get individuals who don't - just like the layabouts, vandals and petty thieves of a non-Muslim variety.

actualy those muslims i refer too are the ones who buy beer from white shop owners and not their parents shop or fellow muslim shop owners so that they can still go to the mosque and say they are a good practising muslim to keep their parents , extended family and fellow worshipers happy, since asians took over a shop near me the young asians no longer use it to buy beer yet when the shop had white owners it was packed wall to wall most nights with asians buying beer, are we to believe that asians refuse to trade with asians now ?

i was born christian and my friend was born muslim but neither of us practice our faith in any way at all , the difference is we dont sneak about drinking our beer then tell everyone we are saints or prophits as the case may be