is John Wayne dead ?

[bullseyebarb]

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

But look at what happens here to people who try to intervene. If this had happened in England and someone had had a gun and shot the guy who was killing students that person would have been arrested for murder.

I know. It's a fatal flaw in your law.

For Eric and garinda.....you have perceptions but your facts are wanting. For definitive stats, try "More Guns, Less Crime", by John Lott. I doubt anyone has studied this subject more than Mr. Lott. He has an interesting web site also. www.johnrlott.com

[steeljack]

Originally Posted by bullseyebarb

I know. It's a fatal flaw in your law.

For Eric and garinda.....you have perceptions but your facts are wanting. For definitive stats, try "More Guns, Less Crime", by John Lott. I doubt anyone has studied this subject more than Mr. Lott. He has an interesting web site also. www.johnrlott.com

Bullseyebarb , this is especially for you , and would welcome your comments http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../27/ngun27.xml its a news story from the Daily Telegraph about women police officers in the UK complaining the guns they being issued are too big for their hands

[bullseyebarb]

Originally Posted by steeljack

Bullseyebarb , this is especially for you , and would welcome your comments http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../27/ngun27.xml its a news story from the Daily Telegraph about women police officers in the UK complaining the guns they being issued are too big for their hands

Typical government......one size fits all. The male officers must have hands as big as hams!

[Eric]

Originally Posted by bullseyebarb

I know. It's a fatal flaw in your law.

For Eric and garinda.....you have perceptions but your facts are wanting. For definitive stats, try "More Guns, Less Crime", by John Lott. I doubt anyone has studied this subject more than Mr. Lott. He has an interesting web site also. www.johnrlott.com

And now we have definitive stats ... what are those; nine out of ten doctors leaves one? And don't get the idea that Canadians don't have guns. We do; I own two shotguns and two hunting rifles, and I am presently restoring a WW1 vintage Lee-Enfield. The guns that are difficult to aquire are hand guns, and the kind of assault weapons that are available in Crackerjack boxes in many US states. And with the guns we have we do not usually shoot people. Check out the murder rate in Detroit and that of Windsor on the Canadian side. These stats are interesting, if not definative. When the City of Detroit has more murders in a year than the whole of the British Isles, something is rotten in the state of Michigan.

When people carry handguns in the glove compartments of their cars, it adds an interesting dimension to road rage. I have a bumper sticker a friend sent me from LA, it reads: "Cover me, I'm changing lanes." The murder rate in the US should suggest that something is wrong. And then there is the state murder rate; America is the only western first-world country that routinely executes murderers. I suppose you are aware that Canada always refuses to deport anyone to the States if they are likely to face the death penalty. That point alone gives me immense pride in my country. Anyway I am rambling off topic.

Nothing personal eh I just happen to believe as strongly in my point of view as you do in yours. After all, that's what democracy is all about.

[Remedi]

Originally Posted by bullseyebarb

I know. It's a fatal flaw in your law.

For Eric and garinda.....you have perceptions but your facts are wanting. For definitive stats, try "More Guns, Less Crime", by John Lott. I doubt anyone has studied this subject more than Mr. Lott. He has an interesting web site also. www.johnrlott.com

Having just read through the previous postings on this thread I have found the differing opinions on display very interseting. As a criminologist I have read three of Mr Lott's publications and must say that you could do with finding a better source to support your argument. His research is deeply flawed in both its approach and its qualitative and quantitaive findings. The conclusions he draws are widely discredited.

[steeljack]

Originally Posted by Eric

I suppose you are aware that Canada always refuses to deport anyone to the States if they are likely to face the death penalty. That point alone gives me immense pride in my country. Anyway I am rambling off topic.

Nothing personal eh I just happen to believe as strongly in my point of view as you do in yours. After all, that's what democracy is all about.

Eric , I think you are wrong on this point , a guy called Charles Ng was repatriated to California a few years back and is now waiting his turn along with over 600+ other killers on Californias death row ( an outrageous number since all have been found guilty under the Law , but sleazeball lawyers and lack of will by elected politicians keep finding ways to stop the sentances being carried out )

[Eric]

Originally Posted by steeljack

Eric , I think you are wrong on this point , a guy called Charles Ng was repatriated to California a few years back and is now waiting his turn along with over 600+ other killers on Californias death row ( an outrageous number since all have been found guilty under the Law , but sleazeball lawyers and lack of will by elected politicians keep finding ways to stop the sentances being carried out )

I remember that case ... and I believe I remember that there was some quirk about it. I would like to trust to my memory, but I might have to resort to google. Good point tho'. I think that it may have to do with his commiting crimes in Canada too.

[bullseyebarb]

Originally Posted by Remedi

Having just read through the previous postings on this thread I have found the differing opinions on display very interseting. As a criminologist I have read three of Mr Lott's publications and must say that you could do with finding a better source to support your argument. His research is deeply flawed in both its approach and its qualitative and quantitaive findings. The conclusions he draws are widely discredited.

By whom? Apparently, they are not acquainted with cities like Kennesaw, Georgia, where citizens are required to have a firearm, (unless a felon or have some religious objection, of course). www.kennesaw.ga.us/index.asp?NID=137

When are you going to wake up and realize that self defense actually does deter crime?

[bullseyebarb]

Originally Posted by Eric

And now we have definitive stats ... what are those; nine out of ten doctors leaves one? And don't get the idea that Canadians don't have guns. We do; I own two shotguns and two hunting rifles, and I am presently restoring a WW1 vintage Lee-Enfield. The guns that are difficult to aquire are hand guns, and the kind of assault weapons that are available in Crackerjack boxes in many US states. And with the guns we have we do not usually shoot people. Check out the murder rate in Detroit and that of Windsor on the Canadian side. These stats are interesting, if not definative. When the City of Detroit has more murders in a year than the whole of the British Isles, something is rotten in the state of Michigan.

When people carry handguns in the glove compartments of their cars, it adds an interesting dimension to road rage. I have a bumper sticker a friend sent me from LA, it reads: "Cover me, I'm changing lanes." The murder rate in the US should suggest that something is wrong. And then there is the state murder rate; America is the only western first-world country that routinely executes murderers. I suppose you are aware that Canada always refuses to deport anyone to the States if they are likely to face the death penalty. That point alone gives me immense pride in my country. Anyway I am rambling off topic.

Nothing personal eh I just happen to believe as strongly in my point of view as you do in yours. After all, that's what democracy is all about.

I never take anything personally, Eric. I have relatives in Canada. Cousins in BC and cousins, plus a 90 year old aunt, in Ontario. Oddly, those in the lefty East are very much in my way of thinking - including auntie, who has plenty of moxy left, believe me.

Assault weapons, my you know what! A definition, please. We can't buy them here legally. Only the criminals manage to get their hands on those. You really must learn to distinguish between law-abiding citizens and felons. See my post to Remedi above.

Detroit....gang central. And let us not forget the drug trafficking. Ditto any major metropolis.

Any idiot who goes postal on the highway and pulls a gun belongs in jail......for a very long time.

Punish the guilty, not the innocent.

Some crimes are so beyond the Pale, they deserve the death penalty. I'm with Steeljack on this one.

[cashman]

Punish the guilty, not the innocent.

Some crimes are so beyond the Pale, they deserve the death penalty. I'm with Steeljack on this .--------------------------------------------------------agree entirely with that part of yer argument, pity MPs aint got the balls to do owt about it.

[steeljack]

re . the Death penalty , I've said in previous posts that I am pro , in favour of it , but then I ask myself , would I be in favour of it if it was one of my family who was in the dock looking at the rope/gas chamber/ sparky etc. same with abortion , I'm in favour of 'a womans right to choose' , but .....if the unborn was one of my own, how would I feel then ? seems a bit hypocritical to be in favour of one and against the other since the end result is essensially the same .
would welcome others views

[bullseyebarb]

Originally Posted by steeljack

I'm in favour of 'a womans right to choose' , but .....if the unborn was one of my own, how would I feel then ? seems a bit hypocritical to be in favour of one and against the other since the end result is essensially the same .
would welcome others views

I think when General Electric developed the technology to give us those amazing images of children in the womb, it pretty much turned the argument around. You cannot put the convicted in the same category as the unborn.

[Eric]

Originally Posted by bullseyebarb

I never take anything personally, Eric. I have relatives in Canada. Cousins in BC and cousins, plus a 90 year old aunt, in Ontario. Oddly, those in the lefty East are very much in my way of thinking - including auntie, who has plenty of moxy left, believe me.

Assault weapons, my you know what! A definition, please. We can't buy them here legally. Only the criminals manage to get their hands on those. You really must learn to distinguish between law-abiding citizens and felons. See my post to Remedi above.

Detroit....gang central. And let us not forget the drug trafficking. Ditto any major metropolis.

Any idiot who goes postal on the highway and pulls a gun belongs in jail......for a very long time.

Punish the guilty, not the innocent.

Some crimes are so beyond the Pale, they deserve the death penalty. I'm with Steeljack on this one.

Before I start to disagree with evrthg you say I do hope that your relatives enjoy living in the great white north. I particularly envy your cousins in BC (we often call it British California). I hope that your aunt is happy in Ontario, where, if she should need medical care, she will get the best in the world at no cost. I had to get that one in.

I really have no idea where the "lefty east" is. In Ontario we have a liberal govt. Ontario liberals are like Northern Democrats. But the
Conservatives (like Northern Republicans) are very strong.

I am surprised at the cavalier way you dismiss your major cities ... some of them anyway ... have you given up on them? Is it ok that drive by shootings, 1000's of homeless sleeping on the streets are features of the major metropolitan areas of the richest and most powerful country in the world? Canada's largest city (Toronto) is the fifth largest in North America (Mexico City is the largest) yet, tho' it has some of the problems of large urban centres, it is clean and safe.

The idiot who pulls the gun on the highway must have access to that gun in the first place.

The question of punishing the guilty is not at issue. What is, is the element of revenge in capital punishment, not to mention the fact that innocent men and women may die on the scaffold or in the chair. The State must not exact revenge. Revenge is passionate, highly charged and very personal.

Anyway, it is a beautiful evening, the open road calls, so I will hop onto my motorcycle and go blow some of the cobwebs out of my mind.

[steeljack]

Originally Posted by Eric

I particularly envy your cousins in BC (we often call it British California). .

is that a sly dig at California ? sounds a bit like those bumperstickers we often see on the cars in the State north of us " Don't Californicate Oregon"

[SPUGGIE J]

Originally Posted by steeljack

is that a sly dig at California ? sounds a bit like those bumperstickers we often see on the cars in the State north of us " Don't Californicate Oregon"

Californicate a new one on me but get the gist. Hell they are doing well with it are they not.