is socialism dead? and should we care?

[Stanaccy]

Why do people get socialism and communism mixed up, socialism is basically provision of services based on need rather than ability to pay.

Communism is the equal sharing of products and capital.

Capitalism is the provision of these services based on competition.

(simplistic I know but..... I haven't even started on the collective ownership etc)

It is communism that has failed, not socialism. Socialism is alive and well in the free provision of education and healcare in this country and many others.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Stanaccy

It is communism that has failed, not socialism. Socialism is alive and well in the free provision of education and healcare in this country and many others.

Except in America, where the red under the bed in more than likely the result of a blood haemorrhage, because you couldn't afford proper nursing care.

[andrewb]

Originally Posted by steeljack

maybe thats why Cuba has a better literacy rate than the US , and maybe thats why more Cubans have better access to basic free health care than lots of innner city urban Americans.
Maybe , just maybe thats why the folks of Cuba kept Fidel Castro in power for so many years (since Eisenhower was president if I'm not mistaken) and not followed the American capitalistic model placed on neighbouring Haiti

A worse human rights record, don't have proper judicial system, no justice system, most of public living in abject poverty. Are you honestly suggesting we should forfeit all our human rights and justice system, so we can have better literacy rates?

[garinda]

Originally Posted by andrewb

A worse human rights record, don't have proper judicial system, no justice system, most of public living in abject poverty. Are you honestly suggesting we should forfeit all our human rights and justice system, so we can have better literacy rates?

Castro always manages to get aid more quickly to victims of hurricanes, than George W. did.

[Loz]

Thanks for the negative karma whoever the hell you are?
Have my suspicions though.
Why not sign it?

[Eric]

Originally Posted by andrewb

A worse human rights record, don't have proper judicial system, no justice system, most of public living in abject poverty. Are you honestly suggesting we should forfeit all our human rights and justice system, so we can have better literacy rates?

I think it's time you looked at the negative impact of the role the US has played concerning Cuba .... And perhaps a look at the history of Cuba before Castro took over ... or at least watch Godfather ll. Better still, visit the place.

Good news for the Americans is that if you live close to Canada, you can still get Cuban cigars, because my country has always recognized Castro's govt., and has excellent relations with Cuba.

[Eric]

And while I'm at it, look at the role the US plays in the whole region .... remember the Contras? Or the threat posed by the evil empire of Grenada? Panama? Isn't it time to stop toeing the American party line? We live closer to them than you do, and we have lost nothing by standing up to them; and, on occasion (such as with the bs in Iraq), we tell them to get stuffed.

[steeljack]

Originally Posted by andrewb

Are you honestly suggesting we should forfeit all our human rights and justice system, so we can have better literacy rates?

you have an objection to Literacy ? please explain , joined up writing not neccesary , printing will do ........
that statement is one of the dumbest things you have ever said , and coming from someone who is enjoying a university education a complete disgrace and sad reflection on your teachers, both past and present.

[steeljack]

Originally Posted by Eric

Good news for the Americans is that if you live close to Canada, you can still get Cuban cigars, .

you mean the ones hand rolled on the innner thighs of nubile young ladies , apologies for sounding like a corrupt dirty old gringo

ok, time for bed

[Alan Gilmartin]

Makes me want to go out and buy a Ceegaar bee jaysus.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Alan Gilmartin

Makes me want to go out and buy a Ceegaar bee jaysus.

Good job I'm not reading your post when I'm three sheets to the wind Alan, or I my just have though you wanted a Ceegaar made by jaysay

[andrewb]

Originally Posted by steeljack

you have an objection to Literacy ? please explain , joined up writing not neccesary , printing will do ........
that statement is one of the dumbest things you have ever said , and coming from someone who is enjoying a university education a complete disgrace and sad reflection on your teachers, both past and present.

Taken in context of course I have no objection to literacy! I was simply highlighting that Cuba has many human rights issues, has little real democracy, most of the population living in abject poverty, and the vast majority don't go on to college, heck a huge percentage don't even get to high school. But yes, it has good literacy rates.

Eric, I am by no means defending the US here.

[jaysay]

I have just recently watch some holiday Videos taken in Cuba, and to be quite honest I can't really understand people wanting to go there of a holiday, it was like watching something from the 60s, it was like a time warp, everything had just stood still, the cars looked like they were out of a museum, and the place was like a hovel, no thankyou Cuba you can keep it

[MargaretR]

I had a similar impression of Malta when I saw the wrecks they use as buses.

Not all countries have displays of wealth - ie modern transport - and use their resources on what they consider more important ways to health and happiness.

[Eric]

Originally Posted by jaysay

I have just recently watch some holiday Videos taken in Cuba, and to be quite honest I can't really understand people wanting to go there of a holiday, it was like watching something from the 60s, it was like a time warp, everything had just stood still, the cars looked like they were out of a museum, and the place was like a hovel, no thankyou Cuba you can keep it

But you have to ask yourself why it's "like a time warp." The US has ruthlessly waged economic warfare on Cuba since Castro, or to be more correct the Cuban people, took power. However, Cuba is a great place to vacation; trust me, I've been there several times. And Cuba is not without friends; and I'm proud to say that Canada is one of them.